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#226118 - 07/12/10 10:29 PM Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond?
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I was asked, and I don't know the answer. 1 ac new pond. Dug last year. Groundwater pond, no surface run-off. Stocked this Spring with FHM, Gams, GSH (3") and 50 4"-6" (more like 4") RES. Other than what was stocked, there are no other fish in the pond.

Pond owner wants to stock YP/SMB next, either in the Fall or the Spring. No other fish species.

I think it might be a little light on RES, but we'll see how the baitfish fill up the empty space.

How many YP, how many SMB, and what size of each? He's thinking of adding the YP either this Fall or in the Spring, and waiting a year to add SMB.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#226128 - 07/12/10 10:40 PM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: esshup]
bbjr Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 365
Loc: NW Indiana
That sounds very close to what I started with in my pond, except I also had 2 or 3 generations of GSF in the pond to start with. I will find the link to my thread where I gave my stocking info and pond updates. Atleast, it can give you some info on what is happening with these species in my pond. I haven't given updated for almost two years, but if you got an questions, let me know and I will try to help.
_________________________
-Chris
1 acre pond
Currently managing:
FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp

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#226131 - 07/12/10 10:43 PM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: esshup]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7712
Loc: Lincoln, NE
I couldn't resist replying to this post. I love the sound of this project.

I think he could add many more RES in a 1 acre pond [up to 800+], but to save on costs he could allow them another year and hopefully pull off a spawn. Did they spawn this year? Experts, what size are RES sexually mature? If they went in at 6" maybe he did pull a spawn.

I don't think size of YP or SMB are important as nothing present in that pond has the gape to pose a threat to them. Both YP and SMB will be the apex predators, I think 100 YP and 50-75 SMB would be a good start. Will he be feeding? If so, he can push those numbers higher somewhat. I think 3-4" fish in both species would be fine and would cost significantly less than larger fish.


_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#226132 - 07/12/10 10:43 PM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: bbjr]
bbjr Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 365
Loc: NW Indiana
_________________________
-Chris
1 acre pond
Currently managing:
FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp

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#226135 - 07/12/10 10:47 PM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: bbjr]
bbjr Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 365
Loc: NW Indiana
Is the owner wanting a balanced fishery of those three species, or are they leaning towards one over the others?
_________________________
-Chris
1 acre pond
Currently managing:
FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp

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#226145 - 07/12/10 11:15 PM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: bbjr]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
The owner is looking towards a balanced fishery. He's looking at the YP as more of forage for the SMB than an apex predator. He aerates but does not feed. He will be the ultimate predator, and will be using some of the fish for dinners.

This is only one of 3 ponds on the property. (well, maybe 4 - he's thinking of digging a dedicated forage pond as well.) The forage pond will be a tough one, because all the ponds are groundwater based, and will fluctuate up to 4 feet in water depth depending on the amount of groundwater.

The 2nd pond is stocked with the same forage base as this pond, with the 3rd pond being dug this year. The 3rd pond will be a more traditional LMB/BG/RES or possibly PSK/GSH/Gams/FHM pond. TJ, he's hoping I drive out to NE for some of your/Bruces YOY BG for the 3rd pond.

I think the 2nd pond will also be a YP/SMB pond.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#226151 - 07/12/10 11:34 PM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: esshup]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Chris:

That was an interesting read! How is the fishery now?

The owner was asking about GC or Tilapia, but as of yet he doesn't have any submerged weeds. All the ponds are constructed with steeper slopes, 3:1 and are in sandy soil in the old Kankakee Marsh Basin.

Pond 1 is by the future home site. 1 to 1 3/4 ac Currently stocked with FHM, GSH, Gams and RES. It will be used for swimming and fishing. While he isn't opposed to using chemicals to control aquatic growth, he'd prefer to limit it's use. I've met his kids, and I believe FA would be more of a detriment to swimming than submerged weeds.

Pond 2 is nearby. Roughly 1 to 1 1/4 ac. Stocked with FHM, GSH, Gams and RES

Pond 3 will be approx. 100' away from Pond 1, and is being constructed in a low area of the woods that normally holds surface water and is a mosquito breeding magnet.

I doubt that the RES pulled off a spawn this year, they were stocked about a month ago, and were mostly 4" long.

I know that RES aren't supposed to have a rolling spawn like BG, but the RES in my pond have made beds right before the full moon in both June and July. My RES are 8"-9" in size, possibly larger.

He visited the property recently, and only saw GSH around the pond edges. I know that Kingfishers and both Green & Blue Herons are on the property. He was concerned that he didn't see any Gams or FHM. I doubt that they all disappeared due to the lack of fish predators in the ponds.
_________________________
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http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#226205 - 07/13/10 10:18 AM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: esshup]
bbjr Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 365
Loc: NW Indiana
Originally Posted By: esshup
Chris:

That was an interesting read! How is the fishery now?


It is going pretty successfully right now. The GSF have gone from an average of 2-4" last year, to 6-7" this year with a RW of 115% to 130%. The bass, both LMB and SMB, are getting good recruitment and the couple that I have weighed this year, are around 120% RW. The YP are a little iffy, though. I have only caught a few this year, and they were around 8-10" and fairly skinny (they could have been males, though). I haven't seen any YP egg strands in the pond, but I did catch a 4" one and seen some fry, so hopefully they are on their way to better recruitment.

I am wondering what kind of effect I will have on the RW, by not stocking the tilapia this year. I am planning on stocking them next year, again, but only for the purpose of forage.

Originally Posted By: esshup
The owner was asking about GC or Tilapia, but as of yet he doesn't have any submerged weeds. All the ponds are constructed with steeper slopes, 3:1 and are in sandy soil in the old Kankakee Marsh Basin.


Those are very similar pond conditions to my own. I had zero submerged weeds when I stocked my GC, but I put in two of them just to help keep things in control, and they have done a perfect job, so far. I have some submerged weeds, but a good amount, IMO. I think that one of the more successful things I have done (or not done) is let nature take care of the areas right around the shoreline. This has created a riparian environment, and when my water levels are high during the spring and early summer, the YOY fry and minnows have a nice area to hide and grow, and then by the time the water levels fall in late summer, I have built up a decent forage base for the predators.

Originally Posted By: esshup
Pond 1 is by the future home site. 1 to 1 3/4 ac Currently stocked with FHM, GSH, Gams and RES. It will be used for swimming and fishing. While he isn't opposed to using chemicals to control aquatic growth, he'd prefer to limit it's use. I've met his kids, and I believe FA would be more of a detriment to swimming than submerged weeds.


If the FA gets out of control, it's hard to find anything better than the tilapia, IMO.


Originally Posted By: esshup
Pond 2 is nearby. Roughly 1 to 1 1/4 ac. Stocked with FHM, GSH, Gams and RES

Pond 3 will be approx. 100' away from Pond 1, and is being constructed in a low area of the woods that normally holds surface water and is a mosquito breeding magnet.


If he has other ponds available, especially a forage pond, he should be able to have a lot better control over his main ponds.


Originally Posted By: esshup
I doubt that the RES pulled off a spawn this year, they were stocked about a month ago, and were mostly 4" long.

I know that RES aren't supposed to have a rolling spawn like BG, but the RES in my pond have made beds right before the full moon in both June and July. My RES are 8"-9" in size, possibly larger.


Very interesting. How deep of water are they bedding in?


Originally Posted By: esshup
He visited the property recently, and only saw GSH around the pond edges. I know that Kingfishers and both Green & Blue Herons are on the property. He was concerned that he didn't see any Gams or FHM. I doubt that they all disappeared due to the lack of fish predators in the ponds.


I would agree that they haven't disappeared. Does he have anything for the FHM to spawn on?
_________________________
-Chris
1 acre pond
Currently managing:
FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp

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#226227 - 07/13/10 11:08 AM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: teehjaeh57]
Theo Gallus Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12332
Loc: Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
I think he could add many more RES in a 1 acre pond [up to 800+], but to save on costs he could allow them another year and hopefully pull off a spawn. Did they spawn this year? Experts, what size are RES sexually mature? If they went in at 6" maybe he did pull a spawn.

TJ:

I'm catching many 6" - 6 1/2" RES this year that are gravid.
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(totus res in temperantia)

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#226234 - 07/13/10 11:43 AM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: Theo Gallus]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7712
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Great news TG - and great to hear from you!

BBJR - I'm impressed with your project - it's right up my alley. I'm posting on your old thread now some questions I have.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#226235 - 07/13/10 11:47 AM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: Theo Gallus]
MRHELLO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1840
Loc: N.E. OKLAHOMA
I would like to stock this combination in one of our 1/4 acre ponds. Would that be possible?

If so what would I need to look for at the pond site to make it ready?

What would be the stocking rate?

Does the depth, temp, clarity make a difference?

What about adding Walleye or using them in place of another fish?

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#226416 - 07/14/10 07:27 PM Re: Stocking rates for a YP/RES/SMB pond? [Re: MRHELLO]
esshup Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
bbjr: The RES are spawing in the same areas that the BG are, but to the shore side, so they are shallower. The water isn't a foot deep where they are spawning.

With the fluctuating water levels, we both don't know what to use for FHM spawning cover. I tried floating pieces of styrofoam on my pond, tethered with a short string to a weight, but I think the predators in my pond keep picking them off. He only has a few rootballs in his ponds now, they were rolled in by a track hoe after the pond was full of water. I'm guessing they're in 6' of water or so.


Edited by esshup (07/14/10 07:30 PM)
Edit Reason: FHM spawning cover
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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