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Joined: Jun 2005
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I had a pump failure last year, and the fatheads in my small minnow pond went belly up. Rather than drive 50 miles to the fish supplier, I bought shiners from a local bait stand. I was hoping for goldens or fathead, but I *guess* they're emeralds. Their backs are very green, more green than any pictures I have yet seen. They're a nice size... a little longer and "taller" than FHM.
I thought they were a more northern fish, but so far so good in the warm water.
Anyone have knowledge or experience with them? Do you think they may reproduce in small (or large)ponds?
Incidentally, they're great feeders. They tear up the pellets, and eagerly take bread right out of your hand.
Thoughts?
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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I think Eric, Bill and Travis have experience with them. I'll be interested in learning along with you...I'm always on the lookout for new forage species to learn about.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau ![[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]](http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii582/teehjaeh57/I_subscribe_zps69249d43.gif)
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Lunker
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TJ,
Yea, Travis immediately comes to mind. I bet he has loads of info on them.
I have to get some pics. These minnows are seriously green along the back.
I had no intentions of using them for forage,,, I was just trying to raise them for bait. But hey, if they can survive and reproduce, that's more than FHM can do.
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If you can get a few good quality photos, I will try to confirm what species they are... Emerald ShinerIf they are indeed emerald shiners, there is a slim to none chance they will naturally reproduce in even large ponds. The Maryland DNR tried to introduce them to several small lakes(between 75 and 300 acres) with no success. They would maintain for a few years and then slowly disappear. They truly are a big water species... There are a number of species that look similar, so once we get some photos we can make a solid ID. However, there are just a handful of shiner species that will do well in ponds. Golden shiner spotfin shienr satinfin shiner red shiner spottail shiner Other than those 5, there are some species than can live in ponds but will not flourish and if they ain't flourishing they ain't making good forage so there is not point in stocking them. I know Bill has and is playing around with a few other species of shiner to see if he can get them to spawn, but thus far it appears he isn't having any luck. Most shiner species require running water, clean gravel and other specific requirements or all of the above. Few ponds have that...
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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If you can get a few good quality photos, I will try to confirm what species they are... Emerald ShinerIf they are indeed emerald shiners, there is a slim to none chance they will naturally reproduce in even large ponds. The Maryland DNR tried to introduce them to several small lakes(between 75 and 300 acres) with no success. They would maintain for a few years and then slowly disappear. They truly are a big water species... There are a number of species that look similar, so once we get some photos we can make a solid ID. However, there are just a handful of shiner species that will do well in ponds. Golden shiner spotfin shienr satinfin shiner red shiner spottail shiner Other than those 5, there are some species than can live in ponds but will not flourish and if they ain't flourishing they ain't making good forage so there is not point in stocking them. I know Bill has and is playing around with a few other species of shiner to see if he can get them to spawn, but thus far it appears he isn't having any luck. Most shiner species require running water, clean gravel and other specific requirements or all of the above. Few ponds have that... Travis - considering my climate, and my desire for a forage fish with a smaller maximum size than GSH, what species would you recommend? Secondly, how would you suggest I source these if you have any ideas?
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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Spotfin shiner, bluntnose minnow or banded killifish are the three best native species that aren't typically stocked in ponds but are great forage fish to consider. Maximum sizes for all are around 4", all can spawn in ponds. All are more resistant to predation than FHM with spotfin being the most resistant, followed by banded killifish and then bluntnose minnows IMOE. I know of only one hatchery that sells bluntnose minnows and one that sells banded killifish. I know of none that sell spotfin shiners. So you would have to source them from the wild. Spotfin shiners are very similar looking to GSH to the casual observer.
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Joined: May 2010
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Can you tell me where I can get some of these to stock as forage and hopefully get them to spawn?
Thanks
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Can you tell me where I can get some of these to stock as forage and hopefully get them to spawn?
Thanks
When you are referring to these, which species are you referring to?
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Travis, Here's a pic. Sorry it's not perfect, the sun and the minnow didn't want to cooperate. Next time I'll nail him to a board before taking pics.  The minnow here is 4" long, which is rather large for an emerald. Also, look at the "height", which looks out of proportion to any pics I can find on the web. I solved the bright green color. You can see it only from the top. Once the minnow is turned sideways, the green mostly disappears. For a full-sized pic, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5142920/Emerald.JPG
Last edited by bobad; 06/18/10 11:59 AM.
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Are these the type that most bait stores sell. I was just wondering what type of shinners they sell since I can get some of them if I have to, but would prefer to get some that will reproduce in my pond and try to keep them up and running.
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Bobad, that fish is a golden shiner. Golden shiners often have a greenish hue to their upper 3rd. Especially females and immature males which don't take on the more golden spawning coloration. The biggest thing that gives the fish away is the fish has a lateral line that curves toward the venter on the anterior part of the body. Look at the lateral line on your fish. See how it comes out of the gill plate and curves dramatically down? That gives the golden shiner away. Also, the "depth" as you describe it definitely precludes it from being an emerald shiner. You also pointed out the fish is 4" long. It's a young adult golden shiner, but would be an extremely large emerald shiner. Again, another clue it isn't an emerald shiner. I suspect outside of the Great Lakes area, finding emerald shiners for sale at a bait shop would be highly unusual. I suspect about 90% plus of the shiners sold at bait shops are golden shiners.
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Travis,
I've caught many goldens on hook and line, but never noticed the green. So that's what threw me off. When I say green, I mean the top 1/3 is solid grass green. Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to photograph.
I know goldens pretty good, so I think I can breed them. I'll be buying more from that bait shop, as my local fish supplier only has fatheads.
Thanks Travis!
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It really is amazing the variation in colors fish can have. From the same lake and especially from watershed to watershed... Some species are more pronounced than others. If golden shiners work for your pond goals, at least you now have a steady source of them...
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