Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations LMB expir. update

This is an update on the LMB catchability expir. I started last year. I know many forum members like to get updates on progress made after the initial idea is discussed. The idea was to improve catachability of LMB in 2 ponds as per the link below (original post) by adding tiger LMB genetics. The problem/concept has been discussed in detail on other forum threads.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001433

In late March I added 1100 3-5in. CNBG ( the avg. of the ones I checked was 4.25in.) behind the blocking net (800 in 16 acre lake and 300 in 6 acre lake. Pellet feed 3x day Gamefish Chow and lifted the net on Independence Day ( thought it ironic to release them into the unknown on that day--kinda like our USA start). During the time behind the net they grew to avg. 6in.( the ones I could measure plus visual) and spawned once late June. Kept feeding them for 3 more weeks reducing the amount during adjustment period.

I did not observe any indication of LMB waiting at feeder for CNBG during this 3 week period that feeding occured after the net was removed. My guess is there were 3 factors that keep LMB from this behavior. One-- good plankton bloom and ample forage base visa. at the time was 14 in. limited sight and need of of LMB to travel to feed. Two--limited time and reduced feeding duration did not leave enough conditioning time for bass behavior to change to waiting at feeder mode. Three -- the shape of the pond many long arms and a lot of shoreline (ie to far to travel) along with negative conditioning of bass in area of expir. The LMB in the area of the expir. site may have become conditioned that they could not get to the CNBG at the feeder because of the net so they did not try or at least learn that they could during the 3 week period. One other possibility is that my observations were inacurate. Given the very good view ( veiw level 10 feet above and 5-50 ft. away), the number of observation and there length (+ to - 20 mins of feeding on 12 occasions) and water depth ( 0-5 ft.), I should have seen it if it occured to any extent. I should note that many of the CNBG did not stay in the feeder area after release thus feeding decreased quickly in time, amount and # of fish .

During the July to Nov. time frame we kept removing LMB( which started the prior fall) to lower # and increase wr and reduce competition with tiger bass to be added in Nov. Wr increased and as of Oct. was at 115% in 16 acre pond and 107% in 6 acre pond.

We sometimes have an unexpected BG spawn in late Aug. or early Sept . This occurs about once every 3-4 years and is in addition to the normal March to July ritual on the full moon. I think it is just the late starters catching up. This year we had a massive late Sept.(third week) BG spawn (in number of visual fry/schools), in the 16 acre pond ,which were observed starting Oct.5 +- . I will not guess at numbers but instead just say that every patch of pondweed every brush pile and limmb etc., and there are a lot , was inundated and surrounded by 1/4 - 1/2 in. BG during early Oct. and there were other pods all along the shore. Yes I am sure they were BG even though at first I was unsure (when that small it is hard to tell). There are no other minnows in this pond and I caught some in a glass jar and watched them to be sure. These BG( the ones that are left) are now 1/2 - 1in. , still hanging around the same areas and are clearly BG. I think part of this may be from the added CNBG which got a late start ,spawning first in late June.

On friday Nov. 11th. the 8in. tiger LMB ( 10 per acre) I ordered in March for fall delivery arrived. I also added some additional CNBG/RE 1-2in. mix and some 3-5in. CNBG to add to the genetic pool and forage base. In the 16 acre pond 1/3 of the fish (50 tLMB, 500 1-2in. mix and 175 3-5in. CNBG)went behind the blocking net which was put out a week earlier and the feeder set up to feed 2x 10am and 2pm. All were feed trained so they should eat pellets. They will stay behind the net for 2 weeks to adjust and hopefully learn that there are large predators in the pond. The remaining 2/3 are on there on. In the 6 acre pond all fish ( stocked on a proportional basis) were placed in several remote coves that had lots of brush added a week ago (we have lots of branches and brush and trees down from the twin hurricanes to use). There is a feeder( same schedule) out for one group of fish in the 6 acre lake. Checked on the fish yesterday and they seem ok , no morts. yet and still behind the net and active. They were great looking fish as have been all the fish I have purchased from this source . I will try to learn how to post pics. so you can see , but I am not a good operator of the digital camara. That is the report to date and I will keep you posted. Any comments or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. ewest

ewest,

Thanks for the update--

Just a few observations from my ponds. The LMB do not wait at the feeders ( in large numbers) to ambush the CNBG. Most of the LMB are northern and the key to aggressiveness seems to be quantity. When the preditor population increases so does the catachability of all sizes.

Best of luck--keep us posted

Eric, will you be able to identify the Tiger Bass" at a later date?

EWEST,

Appreciate the update. Maybe I missed it, but what are the LMB fishing plans following the tiger bass stocking?

As I recall, it took several months for the Florid strain LMB in my pond to become conditioned to the BG buffet that awaited them at the feeders. With a 16 acre lake, you may not ever have to worry about that kind of conditioning.

DD ,Tentmaker and ML :

The tiger bass have one of the pelvic fins clipped.

The plans are to not keep any small LMB under 12 in. until after the tiger bass have spawned. We will take out some over 12 in. to keep balance. If caught we will release any tiger bass (fin clipped) asap. In the mean time we will monitor rw and catch rates and type to see if condition and catchability improve either through conditioning (competition) or genetics. Feeding only behind net so as to avoid LMB at feeder problem.

Checked on the fish behind the net yesterday. Very interesting event. New fish behind the net eating pellets a little but not aggressively both BG and LMB. I noticed that if a pellet floated out of the net area it was quickly and aggressively eaten. First thought was some of the fish got out of the net. No -- why would escaped new fish outside the net be feeding much better than those inside the net. So I threw a handfull of pellets outside the net. Then I saw a number of large BG 7in. plus swarm those pellets. It was the CNBG that were feed March - July behind the net prior to release and not sense, and their 3in. offspring. I would not have thought that they 1) would have stayed in the area without feeding for 3+mths., 2) been so aggressive in eating with the cold water conditions and 3) remembered and reacted that quick to feed resumption ( 1 day).

Tentmaker --I am with you I think conditioning/competition do make a difference just as Bob described at the DFW meeting. With Flas. and F1s genetics is also important. But one thing I will remember as very important is Dr. Gary Garrett's first comment to me over the phone about his studies ,that all LMB (Fla.,F1s and Northerns) exhibit reduced catchability quickly under fishing pressure. When I looked back at his papers after the phone call it was there clear as a bell --He said so at the first of the paper and later gave the stats. and results to prove that pressure is a big factor and that it is more pronounced in Fla. and F1s because they start with a lower catchability genetic base. It just did not make that big of an impression when I first read it as it did when he told me that first and that he made a point of doing so. ewest

Update on the project as of 6-27-06.

The blocking nets were deployed to growout the next batch of additional forage mid-April. On April 24 333 2in. CNBG and 333 2in. RES were added behind the net to growout. Also added were 66 3-5in. CNBG. Feeding started with 36% fingerling food 2 times a day 10am and 3pm. Over time Gamefish Chow was added to the fingerling food and was increased to 3 times as the water warmed. Now feeding 3x 7am , 2pm and 7pm. Some small BG remained behind the net when deployed. Now there is a crowd and they have grown to 4-7 inches. There are several (10+-)large BG est. to be 10-12in. from the prior growout events that must have hidden in the brush when the net was put out. They are real pigs. Their siblings hang out just outside the net along with some pellet trained LMB to get pellets . There are also some small BG 1in. which must have resulted from a spawn inside the net. Anyway most of the added fish are now big enough to go free . This weekend the net will be picked up.