Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Carrying Capacity

I have done some searching - looking for some guidelines about pond carrying capacity. I have seen recommendations of 100 pounds of predators per acre - depending on goals and environment.

Looking for recommendations specifically on maximum predator capacity for my typical midwest pond,...

Environment: Missouri farm pond - two acres, 17' deep, 1/4 HP bottom aeration, 5# gamefish feed per day, naturally fertile, 18" visability, stocked with 10lbs. minnows 3 years ago, channel cat (80 per acre)and Bluegill (500 per acre) 2 years ago, LMB (80 per acre) one year ago.

Goals: Primary Large bass - secondary medium cats and BG.

Current observations from seining: Bluegill spawning well - hundreds of 1"-2" BG in the net, no minnows left, catfish are 2 lbs and bass are 1 lb. No fish have been harvested.

With some mortality factored in - I would guess that I have 70 lbs of bass and 130 lbs of catfish per acre. This is 200 lbs. of predators per acre. Am I already exceeding the recommended predator limit (per my environment and goals)? Should I be removing catfish?

Any comments about predator density are appreciated. Any situations where pondbosses can safely manage 500 lbs/ acre? I have read that Cecil safely manages large crops of big predators!

Gainesjs :

In your seining did you see (and how many) any 3-4 in BG and any yoy LMB? The sein surveys around June would be the best to use. Do you have any RW data on LMB and BG? With that info you can make a better assessment of your forage base .

Carrying capacity varies a lot from pond to pond and region to region. Water quality is very important and more so as rate of fish goes up toward the limit. Feeding and feritility add to natural carrying capacity. Aquaculture type ponds such as CB1's require extensive mgt. efforts and knowledge to manage correctly.

Can't provide much info on northern ponds cc but in the south I have seen natural ponds (no feeding or fert.) have a cc range from 100 lbs of fish (25 lbs pred.) per acre to 3000 lbs cc per acre (Fla. phosphate pits -- not normal ponds). For a fertile southern pond with feeding ( but not an aquaculture pond) an average would be 400 lbs per acre including 100 lbs. of predators. I hope this helps a little. ewest

Thanks for the reply ewest.
I seined up and looked at about 800 fish in August. All fish were 1-2" BG, no minnows or bass.
I caught and measured a few of my F1 bass - the biigest was 14.5" and 1.6 lbs - 100% RW.
Are two pound channel cats counted as predators? I assume that most of catfish diet must be small bluegill, since I don't have any other forage left. I am thinking that I should probably remove some cats to keep the bass growing fast.

Think of your CC as opportunistic omnivores. They will (try to) fill up on whatever is easiest for them to eat.

In a normal pond, they compete at least somewhat with bass for forage fish. You can remove this CC competition (to varying degrees) by feeding the cats and letting them fill up on pellets. The penalties are feed costs, the amount of effluent the CC put in the water and potential resulting water quality problems, and ever-increasing-in-size catfish.

Try and decide what size and number of catfish you want to have in the pond, and how much you want to feed them. Since large bass is your primary goal, you have pretty much already decided that this means fewer cats than you have now. Then, after the bass spawn you should get next Spring begins to really increase the competition your bass have for forage, let the relative weight and catchability of the LMB guide you toward what bass (and CC, to adjust the partial competition they provide the bass) numbers to keep in the pond, rather than trying to figure what the predator carrying capacity of the pond is.

Gainesjs :

I agree with Theo's comments after all he is the c cat-master. I would add, that assuming you made several sein hauls with the same results , that you are about to be predator heavy relative to your forage base ( not necessarily to cc). I base this on the fact that you saw no intermeiate 3-4 in. BG or fatheads and that you saw no yoy LMB reflecting low LMB recruitement . Do you see or catch many 5 in. or larger BG ? Have you seen the LMB spawning ? If the above is correct then you can either add forage or reduce predators or some combination of both. As Theo well noted as the predators get larger it takes more food and food size ( forage base which is a combo of natural food [BG] and pellets). You can wait until you see RWs start to drop or if sure of the situation get ahead of the weight loss curve and start now. Once I am sure that the forage base is dropping and I have extra predators I don't wait for it to show up in dropping RWs. I then start taking out predators and usualy add 3-5 in. or larger BG/RE. Because I know my ponds and can easily make this judgment I do not wait. Theo's method of waiting on falling RW is safer ,if you have doubts about what you are seeing. ewest

ps : I never suggest running near cc or having aquaculture type densities unless you have the experience and knowledge like CB1 does. With out that knowledge and with low margins for error you can lose all your fish if things turn ugly.

used by a guy who WANTS crowded, skinny, hungry LMB and the big bream they (hopefully) produce.

I think ewest is speaking from a more experienced position wrt large bass management. Listen to him.

Theo ;

I am positive that you know more than enough to create either a trophy BG pond or a trophy LMB pond or any combo pond that you want.

To be clear for Gainesjs . Theo's described method of waiting on RW declines is the more used and accepted and scientific method. The other method has more risk but allows you to keep ahead of the skinny LMB better. I would use Theo's method until you are sure of the situation and have at least several years of expirence with your pond. The info needed to use the other described method is much more subtle and requires you to put together various bits of info from sein surveys, catch info, RW and class sizes of BG and LMB as well as visual observations. In addition with more types of fish the bits of info are harder to interpret into the puzzle with clarity. Theo has more expirence with ponds that have the cat, LMB and BG combos than me. We only have cats in one pond and only for a short period. ewest

Thanks - sounds like some good advice!
I walk down to my dock to feed my fish Gamefish chow every evening,(stress therapy). I can see dozens of medium size bluegill, bass and catfish - even the bass still eat the floating Gamefish chow.
I am really amazed of the changes that occur in the first year. I used to see hundreds of 8" shiners eating the floating feed. Now, all the fatheads and shiners are gone - replaced by bluegill!