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#214692 - 04/28/10 09:26 AM Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake
mattmean Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
Hi, I'm new here and hope this might the be right place to ask this.

Currently I live on a Small Lake (more like a pond but they call it a lake) The back of my property has rail road tie wall right up against the water. There is a small dock currently there with about 4 steps down into the water. It's about 3 x 3 and 2.5' depth right off the wall.

I want a dock I can enjoy but am weary about how to place footings in the lake. My worries are stability and depth. My small lake is surprisingly deep for it's size. About 10' out from the edge of the property the depth drop to 5-6' roughly.

If anyone has dealt with this or might have some points or ideas I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

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#214694 - 04/28/10 09:30 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: mattmean]
Omaha Offline
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Perfect place to post this question Matt! Welcome to the forum. I've never built a dock myself, so I can't answer your question, but there are plenty of people around here who know exactly what you need and will be along shortly to answer your question. In the meantime, mind telling us a little more about your lake/pond?
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#214699 - 04/28/10 09:46 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: Omaha]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Welcome Matt! Depending on how large the BOW (Body Of Water) is, and how much the ice moves during the winter will dictate what type of pier you put in.

If little ice movement, and a soft bottom, you could screw or pound pipes into the bottom, use clamps to attach horizontal pipes to the verticals and lay stringers on those like floor joists, attaching wood to the top of the stringers.

Hard bottom? They make flat pads that go on the bottom of the pipes and those set on the bottom. You could use those pads on soft bottom lakes as well, if you have to remove the pier every winter due to ice movement. They have a tendacy to work their way into the bottom if left in the lake for a long period of time and you might have to adjust the height of the pier on the verticals.

If the water fluctuates in height, then you'd be better off with a floating pier.

While it doesn't do you any good this year, if the BOW freezes hard and you don't have ice movement issues, the easiest way that I've found to install a pier is thru the ice during the winter. No dropped tools in the water, no working from a moving boat, and a ready made level.
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#214705 - 04/28/10 10:17 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: esshup]
mattmean Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
The total lake size I can't be exact about, but I'd say its easily 700 ft by 300 ft across probably around the size of a 5 acre body of water. I'm a landscape architect so I just scaled the Google maps image of the lake and my home.

So that being said, I run a fish finder on my yak and the depth next to my property edge is 2.5 - 3'. Just another 10ft out or so it's about 5-6'. The deepest spot near the dam, is 9'8".

Overall for the size of the body of water it's quite deep. People swim in this lake. There is a grouping of lakes, some of them are shallow and mucky, but mine is not (I think). I feel the bottom is semi hard. My friend who lives on the lake in which mine drains to is only 2.5' ft deep pretty much the whole way. I think his contractor drove pylons down, but it looks like either 6x6"s or 4x4"s.

I hope this helps more, thanks again.


Attachments
Untitled_Panorama1.jpg (847 downloads)
Description: Rear View of lake



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#214712 - 04/28/10 10:52 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: mattmean]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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With that size BOW you won't have any ice shifting issues (well, none unless a big storm comes up at just the right time of year).

I've put pipe in a lake bottom by sticking a garden hose inside a 2" galvanized pipe. Make sure the pipe is vertical and resting on the lake bottom. Turn on hose and watch the pipe sink into the lake bottom. Stop when the pipe is a foot or so higher than what you want, turn off hose. Use sledge hammer to pound it the rest of the way. Repeat on pipe #2. This was in a lake that has a muck/sand bottom. In areas that didn't see a lot of activity, you'd sink to your ankles. In swimming areas it was a hard sandy bottom.

Personally, I like pipe and clamps because it's relatively easy to adjust the height of the pier a year, 2 or 3 down the road by moving the clamps.
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#214726 - 04/28/10 12:19 PM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: esshup]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Registered: 07/28/06
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Hi Matt and welcome to Pond Boss. Great panoramic photo.
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#214727 - 04/28/10 12:25 PM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: jeffhasapond]
mattmean Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
Adobe Photoshop has a specific feature called [automate] you look for "photomerge" and bam!

btw. What type of pipe? Do have any photos? I work have access to a lot of fabrication materials, I am the designer for a Landscape/Pool company. We have a full shop with all kinds of pipe, and a mechanic who can weld and probably cut me stainless steel or something as well.

Thanks

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#214737 - 04/28/10 12:58 PM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: mattmean]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 10457
Loc: northern VA
Cool pano photo Matt, I like the set up on the pond. I bet chilly evenings by the fire pit next to the pond are a lot of fun!
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#214769 - 04/28/10 02:53 PM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: CJBS2003]
teehjaeh57 Online   content
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7904
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Hi Matt, great to see a Jersey guy on the forum. Where are you located? I had a company headquartered in Brielle for many years and really enjoy NJ - beautiful state [outsite of Newark!].

Welcome to the forum - lot's of experienced dock builders here who can share their experience to help you out. Glad you found us, keep us posted and the questions coming!
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#214771 - 04/28/10 03:28 PM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: teehjaeh57]
mattmean Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
Northern Jersey, Morris County area. Ironically like 20 minutes from Newark, but as you can see, I'm in a wooded area well off the road haha. Yea I'm looking forward to seeing what materials and suggestions people have, already I have some ideas given the short life of this thread.

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#214786 - 04/28/10 04:49 PM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: mattmean]
esshup Offline
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
We've used standard 2" galvanized pipe, and the pier has been in the lake for 35-36 years now. Each upright was a single piece - no couplings used on the verticals.
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#214868 - 04/29/10 07:56 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: esshup]
mattmean Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
I genuinely new @ the concept of building a dock, is there a blueprint type pdf. any might know of online, or simply have? I can get pipe and slam it into the ground but then how do you go about frame work etc? The lake association only allows a max of 100f dock. So max I can go is 10 x 10 but if i am able to I want it too look more like this.


Attachments
Dock.jpg (1110 downloads)


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#214894 - 04/29/10 11:56 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: mattmean]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I bought brackets to build a floating dock from Dock Builders Supply.

I'll swing by the lake and see if I can take a pic of the pier with pipe supports and get it posted tonight.
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#214907 - 04/29/10 03:04 PM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: esshup]
Brettski Offline
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#214931 - 04/29/10 09:56 PM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: Brettski]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Good one Brettski! That ought to help a bunch!

I know the brackets that we used are probably very hard to source now considering they are probably over 40 years old.
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#215264 - 05/03/10 09:11 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: esshup]
mattmean Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
Hmm , thanks all. I think I am going to post some pics later today if i can get this rain to spot.

I want to use 6x6"s for my pier/pylons, maybe a concrete footing. I've seen some sweet prefab cc blocks with cut outs to set a 6x6 in them, and simply use a lag bolt and done. I can anchor my dock to my existing 3x3 dock and my railroad tie wall. hopefully some photos will explain this better =)

I'll check in later on.

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#215278 - 05/03/10 11:17 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: mattmean]
Ryan Freeze Offline
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Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 1285
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I wanted a low profile, clean looking dock so I built my 16'x4' dock from a combination of steel, wood, and composite. The posts were built from 3"x1/4"wall steel pipe with a 1'x1'x 3/4" steel plate welded to the bottom at a slight angle to match the slope. I then welded a 30"x 1" Pin (salvaged anchor bolts for concrete barrier) to the bottom. The main frame was constructed of 4x4x1/4" angle iron welded. I drilled two holes approx. 12' out 3" and welded 3"id x 3 1/2" pipes over the holes. The 3"x3 1/2" short pipes had 2 1" holes in each which I welded 7/8" nuts to. The posts slipped through the frame and short pipes and bolts could be tightened to clamp the post. This design allows the dock to be adjusted if needed. The bank side had concrete piers dug 30" deep. I used concrete tubes for this. The entire frame was coated with organic zinc, epoxy, followed by a coat of urethane. Joists were laid across the angles, I used 4x4s since they sit flush with the angle. Over the 4x4's I laid the composite decking. It stays cool, has good traction when wet, doesn't rot and requires no sealer. Some of the components are extra heavy simply because it's what I had as scrap.
















Edited by Ryan Freeze (05/04/10 10:32 AM)
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#215417 - 05/04/10 07:44 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: Ryan Freeze]
mattmean Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 7
Loc: NJ
UPDATE:

After checking with my lake association, I cannot just drop concrete block with 6x6"s affixed. While it was the easiest of my options, it is no longer.

I have to check about the steel poles style of construction, but I can use the 12" wide pvc pipe and fill them with concrete and then a 4x4" is fine, however, most costly. I'm estimating 20+ bags of concrete.

Ryan I liked how u set yours up. Mine would be about 10 x 10 and i want to cut the front corners off @ 45 degree angles. Its slightly more complicated but I would let me maximize my space. Do you have any more detailed spec sheets, or docs of the pole setup you used.

Thanks as always

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#215456 - 05/04/10 11:25 AM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: mattmean]
Ryan Freeze Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 1285
Loc: Southwest Ohio
I don't have anything other than what I posted. It's a simple design that is very stable. Note that my posts are only about 4' long and the combination of the welded connection of the upper sleeve and the long pin at the base provide enough stiffness that crossbracing wasn't needed. Longer posts may require knee braces or crossbracing for added lateral stability.

It was easy to place with the pond full. Basically I rested one end of the frame on my jon boat and pushed it out until the bank side holes in the frame slipped over the anchor bolts in the piers and then loosened the bolts for the posts letting them slide down and drove the pins into the clay bottom with a post driver or sledge until the foot plates hit. To level, I hooked a come-a-long to the extra length of post sticking up an wrapped the cable around the frame to lift/lower the frame until level then tightened the bolts on the sleeve. The 4x4 wood joist were layed out 16"cc and the decking screwed down over top. The joists were not fastened to the frame as I didn't see a reason to.

I think if I was going to build a 10'x10', I would build two 5'x10' frames out of angle with 3' chamfers. The two halves could be attached together and it would allow for three posts (assuming you'll be attaching one side to a bank structure)while keeping joist spans under 5'. The post line could be positioned near the bank side of the chamfered corners allowing about 3' to cantilever. The angle frame if made from 4'x4'x1/4" angle would weigh about 400lbs but could be installed in two 200lb halves. I would estimate the steel for the frame and posts to be around $375 for material.
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#217445 - 05/16/10 11:00 PM Re: Installing a dock to an existing pond/lake [Re: Ryan Freeze]
Dantheman Offline
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Registered: 11/04/09
Posts: 108
Loc: Wisconsin
Check out Tommydocks.com more expensive but easy
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