Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations large fish wont bite

ive been managing 4 years ,it seems as the fish get larger they get harder to catch,almost impossible,lmb big and small,any one else experiance this???,are they just hook shy ??,8 acre lake/with alot of fish over 4lbs.

ttop,

Yes many of us on this forum (some are still in denial) have not only experienced it, we have lamented it, and sought out other alternatives.

LMB, especially Florida strain LMB, are not well suited to catch and release fishing pressure in small ponds...we have even had reliable posts from managers of 50 acre lakes confirm the same things. As the LMB mature, over three to four pounds and after being caught a couple of times, they become almost impossible to catch on artificials of any type. The problem is seems to be exacerbated in the presence of artificial feeders...the LMB appear to feed almost exclusively on BG at the feeders and will not take artificials of any type.

This is the great disappointment that no one tells you about when you are designing the pond/lake of your dreams...you spend big bucks, you watch it fill, you stock it, and have great fishing for a couple or three years, and then...where did the bass go? Why can't I catch them? It has happened to many of us herein...I feel your pain!

Alternatives...several are trying (including myself) the F1 LMB who are purported to be much more aggressive than pure Floridas and less prone to "learning". If interested I can send you a very good article on the F1s.

Another alternative which several of us are also trying (myself included)is HSB on a "put and take" basis. These are great fish, grow fast, better fighters than LMB, and taste great....but they do need artificial feed and open water. In this kind of operation, the HSB never overpopulate, stunt, or get lure shy..you catch them, eat them, and replace them each year.

Welcome to ponding and its many wonders...and welcome to the Forum where we have a great time exchanging ideas and experiences on ponds.

help a newbie out....

HSB = ?

hybrid smallmouth?
honey suckle bears?
huge striped bass?

close....Hybrid Striped Bass = HSB

Largemouth bass = LMB

Bluegill = BG

F1 = cross between northern(native) LMB and Florida LMB

ML said:

I AM NOT in denial!

Hey 'Lark, what's your typical eating size for an HSB?

TG,

It isn't like I have a smorgasbord of HSB to choose from ...but my initial stockers, which are in their second year, are running about three pounds, just right for a nice meal for two...and a terrific battle on a 5wt.

The problem, and I hate to admit this, is making sure these HSB don't become pets...they do put on a show at feeding time.

I have never had that trouble (making pets) from feeding catfish. They have a face only a mother could love, and that mother would have to be another catfish.

Hey ttop,

Welcome!

You mention large lmb over 4lbs and alot of them you say.

How's the bluegill fishing and population in general? Is there a good number of panfish and prey?

Does your lake get much pressure? Or is it just a family lake that receives some pressure on weekends?

had the lake shocked this year and got a great report.every thing appears to be perfect (yea right).im just frustrated at the amount of effort to catch the bigger fish.however this spring i was able to catch and identify @ least 35 fish over 4lbs(all spawning,easy to catch) which i tagged and realeased to verify. can you post any pictures on this site/how???

hey meadowlark what about live bait will they bite on that ???? my fish are there they just will almost not bite at all. i know an old fish is smarter but this is getting unbelieveable...i may have to stoop to live bait???

ttop,
Check this link out: http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001628

I was refering more to what size they tend to be or whether there was a large(or even a noticable number in a specific size class.

I'm wondering if maybe the lakes that suffer from large bass not biting is bluegill heavy. I can't recall hearing of more than one or two cases here diagnosed as being bluegill heavy. From what you said it sounds like you counted 17 1/2lbs of bass per acre .

I'm figuring if someone stocked florida strain they probably went pretty heavy on stocking the bluegill/prey and didn't harvest much bluegill. Or the bass got tired of putting up with food stuff that pulled them ashore so they switched diets and habits . Did/do you have a large variety of techniques or stick primarily to stuff that you have caught fish on or what? I'm curious if a bass over 4lbs has a much different life style from its younger counterparts that might cut down on fishing success. You see your big bass much while fishing?

i believe my bluegill are abundant and diverse in size.i may be b/gill heavy havnt considered that,althought the shock survey didnt indicate that,along with other things that i believe to be incorrect.i have a mix of floriadas,and native lmb (for a fact).i do see large bass frequently and cant get them to bite...maybe they are full of b/gill you think?????

I recently read "somewhere" that catch and release pond managers were releasing the fish into other ponds which left the fish some what disoriented yet hungry thus eliminating some of the hook shyness.

ive released 15 fish over 5lbs (all tagged)this year and caught only 1 . all from a public resevoiur(probably all floridias)is this ok not considering lmb virous ,which im aware of the risk,but believe its worth it. .if that were 2-3 lbrs i know i would have already caught at least a 1/3rd of them again.surely its not hook shyness stopin them???????

ttop,

Yes absolutely, they will bite on baby BG, especially around the feeders.

herehis a pic of a typical lmb in the spring they seem to be fairly healthy or getting plenty of food .they all have plenty of meat on their bones. web page

I honestly believe fish are smarter than we give them credit for, they probably don't have a higher knowledge on why they stay away from that lure...they just associate it with being a bad experience. The older they get the more "bad" experiences they have to reinforce the association!

Don,

I agree with you...and that is why I say for LMB, catch and release fishing pressure in small ponds with feeders does not work...okay maybe "learning" is too strong a term, but there is no question in my mind that LMB practice that old saying which goes something like "fool me once, I was young and foolish, fool me twice, I was overcome by hormones, but fool me a third time, no way, no how on your artificial stuff!"

Some liberties taken with the old saying.

ok so just turn off the automatic feeder and see if they bite

another strange occurence is that out of the 150 or so fish i have tagged you would be suprised how many of the same fish are caught over and over . yet some will go a year or longer before being caught.. could it be the floridia strain ???? or just those bad experiances w/lures???

ttop, maybe fish are somewhat like people...some are slower learners!

SHOULD I TURN THE FEEDER DOWN OR OFF???? I HAVE BEEN FEEDING MORE THAN EVER THIS YEAR.MAYBE THE FISH ARE JUST FULL ?? ALL THE FISH IM CATCHING HAVE BELLIES LIKE THE ONE IN THE PICTURE A FEW POST UP..JUST NOT CATCHING MANY.........

I have sat back and read this topic. I finally need to throw in my 2 cents. I do not feel turning off the feeder wil help at all. I know ML does not like fertilization so supplemental feeding is that more important to indireclty increase the overall number of pounds you can grow in the pond.

So turn off the feeder? This simply means you will have less bass pounds growing in the pond. I guess if you want to catch hungry skinny bass this will work, is this the goal?

I agree with hook shy fish. If compare catch records to electorfishing results many times in low pressure fishing they are very similiar. However if we compare to high fishing pressure usually surprised at the number of quality bass we get electro vs. fishing. IN a small pond it is easy to educate fish. I agree on this point.

SO.. limit the fishing pressure for LMB in small ponds. However if you maximize the number of bass in the pond this will help as well and this is why fertilizing properly and good supplemental feeding, deiverisfying forage, etc. is improtant.

TO summairze max number of bass and limit fishing do not turn off feeder. I feel better now, thanks

GREG I HAVE AN 8 ACRE POND WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OF HEAVY FISHING PRESSURE???1HOUR A DAY 1 HOUR A WEEK ETC... IN THE SPRING I FISH EVERY DAY AVERAGE 2HRS FOR 2 MONTHS ..SAY MAR-APR ,IS THIS TO MUCH ..NOW IM FISHING MAYBE AVRG 30MIN A DAY??