Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Proposal Before the Pond is Designed or Built...?!

I have a little bit of a situation on my hands. I am "hoping" to do a little consulting for a farm pond that is going to be built in the near future.

Here is a link to my original thread when I first went out to meet the land owner and contractor.


http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...0411#Post210411


Here are the problems I am faced with.

The land owner has asked that I submit a proposal for my fee(s) / budget for the project. This would be my first consulting job as my knowledge of "Farm Ponds" is purely academic. Hands on experience is "0", but we all have to start somewhere right?

Fee aside, the main aspect I am struggling with is the idea of submitting a proposal with a budget. This wouldn't be so difficult for me if I could see the pond in person. Heck, it hasn't even been designed yet! So basically they don't know the exact surface acreage or depth / volume of water the pond will hold. I flat out just do not know the specifics of the pond as a "final product" for lack of a better term, other than that they are going with 3:1 slopes.

There is also no way (that I am aware of...) to know what the fertility of the pond will be. This would directly influence any stocking recommendations that I might have, which would in turn affect the budget.

When I asked about the soil report and plans for aeration (whether it would be 24/7 etc) the land owner basically told me that it didn't concern me. He has told me that he does not believe the scope of my work should have anything to do with the "construction" of the pond. My scope would be the "biological aspects only".

What he is failing to realize is that form and function go together, and cannot be separated from one another.

My lack of experience in consulting has me scratching my head.

I am having a hard time seeing how I could submit a proposal with a budget so early on in the process.

I could give them a ballpark estimate based on a 1 to 1.3 acre pond, but it seems to me that if I were to include stocking and structure recommendations in the proposal then I basically gave them most all the information they need in the proposal itself. What would they need me for then?

I am thoroughly confused about what should be included in the proposal itself.

I do not want to be rude or say something that might burn my bridges, but I feel that I need to speak up and let the land owner know that I cannot really recommend anything until I am included and kept in the loop during the design process, and even then I would not feel comfortable with recommending a stocking strategy until the pond has been established for around 6-8 months to allow for the growth of phytoplankton, plants, etc.

They do not want to hire me on until I submit a proposal and budget, but I feel that I cannot do a good job unless I am included in the design process at least at a very basic level. I feel as though I cannot come up with a quality stocking strategy until the pond is established.

I'm not really sure where to go from here. Any suggestions?

Criticize and lecture me if you need to.

Ask them to write down their goals for the pond - all uses and purposes. Ask for the info from the soil tests and tell them you need it as it limits (sets the parameters of) what can be done biologically. Ask if they will be aerating as that determines the ability of the deep water to hold O2 for the fish and thus set the ponds carrying capacity. Check on ponds in the area to see the fertility . With that you can do a budget but tell them availability and cost of fish varies a lot based on time , type and size of fish needed. Find out what services you will be providing , if any, other than stocking.

Read and re-read Ewests post above. You cannot effectively submit a proposal and budget until you have an idea what the client actually wants and equally important whether or not what the client wants is feasible and/or a reasonable expectation.

Being a consultant also means knowing which projects you need to walk away from. You can't be everything to everyone.

Personally, I would be concerned about a client that refuses to give me enough data to allow me to prepare a well thought out and thorough proposal. This could be a red-flag.


If, after gathering enough data, you decide to prepare a proposal:


Discuss this aspect in your proposal.



As a consultant you will "give away" quite a bit of knowledge for free. I "give away" advice all of the time (some of it is even good advice ). Get use to it. You must demonstrate to the client that you have vast knowledge related to this subject and that is why they need to hire you. IMHO you need to use the proposal to showcase how much you know. Discuss the effect of the uncertain elements that you mentioned above (surface area, depth, fertility, etc).

As a consultant you will write numerous proposals. Many will be rejected. Leave your ego at the door.

That's excellent advice. Unfortunately there's a lot more to contract work besides doing a good job. You or someone in the organization has to sell it to the client before you even get a chance.

Before doing anything you must have a defined scope of your role from the potential client. In the realm of Project Management in the Construction and Engineering sector there must be an open dialogue between contractor and client. Also bid packages are put together by prospective clients to outline their needs.

It is within reasonable expectation that the client goes through a high level scope of the project and their goals before any quotations. At this time you should ask for any other details that you deem pertinent to executing your piece of the puzzle.

Your quote must be concise and have a detailed breakdown of line items. Outline each portion of your services (Fish, Plants, Feed, Structure, etc.). This is your chance to put a price tag on each stage of your contract. As JHAP says this is where you are giving information away for free. However if done correctly you can paint broad strokes(Fish: Main line Predators"$2500", Omnivorous Forage Fish"$1500", Feeder minnows "$500").

I realize that Fisheries Consulting is different animal from the Engineering world, but IMO a quote serves the purpose of outlining the steps and prices needed to achieve the client's objective. It shows what is included, but more importantly what isn't. If the quote is accepted then you and the client have agreed to pricing and scope of your work. When the scope changes (It always does) you are not obligated to do that work. Anything else can be paid for in "Time & Materials".

Good luck and be careful. Something seems off here IMHO. You should know what they want before any quotes are delivered. I hope this helps...

You may be getting hosed. Assure yourself that they aren't asking you to develop a free management plan.

I'm with Dave on this one. Don't give away the details until you have a signed commitment. Be detailed on the results but not necessarily how you plan to achieve them. Your knowledge is what you sell. Give it all away and you are left holding the bag. If a client answered one of my qualifying questions with "it doesn't concern you" I would be on red alert. Be careful and don't be afraid to walk away if the client isn't willing to work with you.

Thank you guys for the advice. I really appreciate it.

I went ahead and gave them a little more information on the stocking strategy than I probably should have, but then was intentionally a little vague as it came to the placement of structure while at the same time highlighting its significance and the variables that come into play. Also didn't touch on the harvesting aspect of pond management. Hopefully this will keep them needing me. I could really use the job as an addition to my vet school application...


Thanks again!