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#140315 - 12/04/08 07:03 PM Liquid Lime
shamgar Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Louisiana
Has anyone used flowable dolomitic limestone (liquid lime) on a pond? Any downsides, other than having to reapply more often? I'm trying to lime a 21-acre lake that's on an island--no land access for a truck or a lime barge. It's an old gravel pit that basically has no water flowing through it, so unless there's a flood it shouldn't get washed out too fast.

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#140338 - 12/04/08 10:47 PM Re: Liquid Lime [Re: shamgar]
Rainman Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6968
Loc: St Louis, MO area
shamgar, welcome to the forum!!!!

First off have you had your water tested for PH and calcium hardness? It's hard for me to imagine a rock quarry needing to be limed.

A very educated guess would be that you will kill a bunch of fish with liquid lime! It's great for soil but will raise the PH in a pond like Hydrated Lime. In fact it probably IS hydrated lime. Even if it's not Hy lime it will be very short lived and probably not worth the expense.

What is the brand name of the liquid lime you plan to use? Most road rock is made from limestone if you can get that delivered.

Again, welcome to the forum! We're glad you found us before you make a decision that could cost you fish---most of us did it AFTER killing a bunch or some sort of other mistake.
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Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#140386 - 12/05/08 09:30 AM Re: Liquid Lime [Re: Rainman]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Field Correspondent
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Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
Hi Shamgar and welcome to Pond Boss.
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~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#140508 - 12/05/08 05:49 PM Re: Liquid Lime [Re: Rainman]
shamgar Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Louisiana
Thanks Rainman:

The lake actually belongs to a new client of mine (I have a pond management business in Louisiana & Mississippi). It's kind of an odd situation--it's an old sand and gravel pit on an island with absolutely no access anymore. The pH was about 6 and the alkalinity and hardness were around 7 mg/L. The Secchi visibility was something like 9 feet, which is extremely clear for Louisiana. I did an electrofishing survey--everything was poor.

I called one of the manufacturers of the flowable lime today and talked to them about the product. It's dolomitic (ag) lime, so it sounds fairly safe. I just don't know anyone who's actually used it. It's about the only option for liming this lake--I couldn't possibly get my lime barge to it, much less the lime. I'll let you know how it turns out.

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#140525 - 12/05/08 09:09 PM Re: Liquid Lime [Re: shamgar]
2catmom Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 647
Loc: michigan
Welcome Shamgar:

You have come to the right place, you will become addicted just like me, need to get the magazine too.
Please tell me what the purpose of adding lime is? My lake is a sand/gravel pit, spring fed. I know it is hard water, there are deposits that look like iron/rust on my sandy areas where the springs seep up.
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#140530 - 12/05/08 09:45 PM Re: Liquid Lime [Re: shamgar]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6968
Loc: St Louis, MO area
 Originally Posted By: shamgar
Thanks Rainman:

The lake actually belongs to a new client of mine (I have a pond management business in Louisiana & Mississippi). It's kind of an odd situation--it's an old sand and gravel pit on an island with absolutely no access anymore. The pH was about 6 and the alkalinity and hardness were around 7 mg/L. The Secchi visibility was something like 9 feet, which is extremely clear for Louisiana. I did an electrofishing survey--everything was poor.

I called one of the manufacturers of the flowable lime today and talked to them about the product. It's dolomitic (ag) lime, so it sounds fairly safe. I just don't know anyone who's actually used it. It's about the only option for liming this lake--I couldn't possibly get my lime barge to it, much less the lime. I'll let you know how it turns out.


Dolomitic refers to the Stone used in the manufacture and is the most common form of limestone. Hydrated, aka slaked, quick, cake, powdred, lime all come from Dolomitic stone. Ag lime is just a crushed and poorly screened/graded product of the same stone. Granted that Hydrated lime has chemicals added and goes through a heating process to further concentrate the lime, a "Liquid" lime will be lime that is dissolved, at lower concentration, and will raise the PH very quickly.

It may be safer and more cost effective to take bags hydrated lime and place the bag and all in about a foot of water to allow wave action to slowly dissove the lime.

Try a "Jar" test! Make a gallon solution of liquid lime mixed with water and add a small amount of the solution to a gallon of some of the pond water and take ph readings before and a couple minutes after adding the solution. I'd bet the PH will raise immediately. The rapid PH change is what shocks/kills the fish.

Either way, I hope you get a good result.
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#156571 - 04/02/09 12:34 PM Re: Liquid Lime [Re: Rainman]
shamgar Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 12/04/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Louisiana
Just wanted to let everyone know how the flowable limestone project worked out. Sorry I wasn't very clear in the previous posts about the product we used. It's just very fine limestone (100% passes through 300 mesh screen) with some water added. The idea is that the smaller particle sizes will have a faster and more complete reaction than traditional ag lime. We spread the flowable limestone by injecting it into the suction line of a 2-inch pump with a fire nozzle on the discharge hose.

We added 2.5 gallons/acre on December 29 and another 10 gallons/acre on January 29. Here are the total alkalinity measurements: 6.9 mg/L (as CaCO3) on October 9; 7.5 mg/L on January 20; 7.9 mg/L on February 17; and 12.0 mg/L on March 26. It may have increased some more over time, but I just found out the river washed the levee out and took the lake with it.

The manufacter claims a 2.5 gallon jug of flowable limestone is equal to a ton of ag lime, and that the alkalinity will increase in 7-10 days. We added 12.5 gallons/acre to a lake with a lime requirement of 1 ton/acre, so I think those claims may be off considerably in real life. It looks like it would work if you added enough, but at $30+ per jug, it might get expensive trying to get the alkalinity above 20 mg/L. I would only recommend it as a last resort for leveed ponds with no road access.

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#156579 - 04/02/09 01:53 PM Re: Liquid Lime [Re: shamgar]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19534
Loc: Miss.
Thanks for the update. I hope the levee washout is small and easy to fix.
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#156607 - 04/02/09 06:11 PM Re: Liquid Lime [Re: ewest]
Greg Grimes Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 3973
Loc: Ball Ground, GA
we did similiar trials and had similiar results. If you had a tiny <1 acre pond the ease of use may be worth it. Otherwise any decent size lake you are spending lots of money to achieve same results of adding ag lime if possible.
_________________________
Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com

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#211670 - 04/06/10 11:03 AM Re: Liquid Lime [Re: Greg Grimes]
Kntry Offline
Fingerling

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Louisiana
Hi, I'm new to the forum but have a question about using lime in a pond.
We dug about a ľ acre pond, approx. 35x75x5í deep with sloped sides. Iím estimating about 80,000 gallons however the pond is only about Ĺ full. We have well water.

I have koi in the pond and they require a pH between 7.5-9. I lost a 26Ē, high quality female Sunday night and a smaller female yesterday. Since Iíve calmed down and can think rationally, Iíve come to the conclusion the problem is a pH crash. My pH last night and this morning was 6.5. I have 0 hardness and alkalinity. I did not lime the pond.

Tonight Iím going to add a water pump and spray bar/fountain to aerate the water and start bringing the pH up. I need to add lime or something to increase the alkalinity and hardness to keep the pH stable but I canít bring it up rapidly.

If I use the liquid limestone, how fast does this increase the pH? How long does it last? If I use ag lime, do I mix it with water and broadcast it into the pond or do I spread the powder across the surface? How fast does the dry powder raise the pH?

In my liner ponds, I added chicken scratch to the filters to increase the alkalinity. Iím thinking about adding it to the mud pond also. Has anyone done this?

Thanks for the help.

Sandy

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