Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site New Pond builder with liner questions

New to the forum but I have been checking out the site for a while now. I am building a 1 acre plus pond with a deep end of about 10’ in southern AZ, which means hot and dry conditions. The soil is a sandy loam (will be digging the pond in a 20 acre ag field) which will require lining to hold the water. Reasons for building the pond… recreation, aesthetics, and T&E fish… and because I have always wanted a pond. I am in a partnership with the AZ Game and Fish and the Fish and Wildlife to develop this pond on my private property and with their help I agree to stock two endangered fish. The water source will be irrigation and well water. I cannot afford to lose any water to seepage problems so I have decided to go with a liner. After my first go at research I had decided on a 30 mil PVC. Now I am leaning towards PPL-36 from a company out of OR. They claim to be able to fabricate the whole acre liner at the factory so that I can avoid any field seems (good advice from some on this site), and their product seems to be very strong. I will also check into the Colorado lining company. That is a little background. Now for a few questions: Once the liner is installed I plan on putting roughly a foot of parent material back onto the liner. What is the steepest slope that I can have and keep the material from sliding down the slope? I want to get to 3’-4’ feet as quick as possible to avoid vegetation problems (more good advice from this site). Has anybody had any experience with the PPL-36 or 24? It was mentioned that Otto had a good article on liners. Anyway for me to get a copy of the article? This will do for now. Thanks in advance. The project starts this Wednesday and I will provide pictures. All comments and help are welcome.

Welcome to the forum Langstrum...

What are the two species of endangered fish you'll be stocking? A species of pupfish?

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The forum loves pictures, can't wait to see what your project looks like!

Welcome to the forum Langstrum! Very cool to be stocking endangered species. Can't wait to hear more.

Welcome! That sounds like an interesting project. I've never worked with a liner. Here's Mike Otto's website and his phone number.

Ottos Dirt Service 1-800-882-3478

Since you're starting the project shortly, I'd give him a call.

What species will be in the pond?

The two fish are the Desert Pupfish and Gila Top Minnow. Thanks for the info and I will be giving Otto a call. I will try to get some pics taken of the site and on here in the next few days.

We lined a 1 acre pond with hypalon in 1990 and have had zero issues.It is seamed and install was headed up by a CO outfit, using local contractors.

Sides are STEEP. We have gas vents around the perimiter as well.
Looking at PVC now,for another project, due to huge increase in price over last 20 years.

JHM

Thanks for the info. I had never heard of hypalon so I looked it up. It looks like DuPont will discontinue the product.

Couple of questions if you dont mind... How did you install the gass vents? and did you cover the liner with material (dirt) after the install?

Since I plan on covering the liner after it is installed I am a little worried on how to do that without damaging the liner.

Another question for the group. I had originally planned on A D-5 and a paddle wheel scraper to do the dirt work but after looking at some other ponds being excavated they were using farm tractors and pull behind scrapers with a lazer level. Is there a preferred method? There is a 3.5' slope from the top of the pond to the bottom. The plan is to have a dike on the down hill side with it tapering away to the uphill side. I was scheduled to begin excavation on Monday so any help would be appreciated.

Lots to talk about.
1 the slope a 3.5-1 is as steep as I would go. The dirt may not slip on a steeper slope but why take the chance.

2. Either piece of equipment will move the dirt, what is cheepest.

Get a price by the yard.

The liner people should tell you about the gas vents. Is the price of the liner with installation? A one acre liner will be heavy and should not be installed by you unless you have a lot of HELP.
It may cost more to cover the liner but that is the best way to go.
Keep us posted.

There was a issue with the company making the resin that is used in the production of hypalon, but I hear that a firm in Japan is now back at it. I believe that a firm by the name of Burke is producing hypalon.

The vents are just a piece of PVC, maybe 8" long, installed horizontally (flat) at the top of the liner, around the perimeter. Ours was installed by Environmental Liners out of CO, but I just learned they are no longer in business.

Ours is a plain liner, no covering, but it is a specific purpose pond.

Thanks for al the input thus far.

I was thinking about the pond edge for a few different reasons. I have been looking at various websites, with many of them showing golf course ponds with cement edges that have been weathered and stained to look as natural as possible. This serves as erosion control method (wind and wave) and also allows for a slight drop off getting to the 3’ water depth that is needed to prevent excessive plant growth along the shore line. I priced this service out and to have someone do this for you it costs about $30+ a foot = very expensive, around 30k for my project. I was wondering if anyone has ever used, seen used, or think that you could create the same effect with manufactured retaining wall block, with the liner going under the pavers, up the back side of the pavers and then into an anchor trench. The wall would only be about 24” to 30” high. Would there be any stability issues? I realize this would still be expensive but not near as expensive…maybe I would not go around the whole pond. Am I thinking too much about the plant growth?

So, the dirt work is about complete. I have just a little more depth to get and then make sure that I have it level accross the top. I also need a little work on ensuring that I have a 3 or 4 - 1 slope and then I will be digging a trench around the perimter to anchor the lining in. Should be through with depth, leveling, slope, and trench this next week. I have some pictures to share but not being a computer wiz I am having trouble with how to post pics? I'm sure someone else has had the same question so if I could get pointed in the right direction I would appreciate it.

The Archives are your friend for many, many things!

Here are a couple of pictures.

http://s819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/Pond%202010/

Looks good!

Here are a few more pictures. Just about ready for the liner.

http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/Pond%20before%20liner/P1010129.jpg

langstrum,

I am interested in getting a lined pond here in Florida. I really appreciate the updates/pics, I may contact you for info later on. I assume a 1 acre 1 piece liner has to be delivered by semi, how much does that sucker weigh, and how will you get it from the truck to where you will "roll" it out?

Also how did you calculate the measurements of the liner, I assume there must be a formula that I once probably knew.

I just took a gps around the pond and it came out to 1.075 acres. The depth at its deepest is 13'. My plan is to put a cement edge along 300' of one end of the pond where area where most of the family activity will take place. The cement edge will have a vertical edge of roughly 2.5' with a 3' horizontal safety edge in case someone falls in. In the far left corner of the 3rd picture (next the cut for a pipe) there is a 25' x 50' flat area that will be 2.5-3' deep. This will be an underwater cement pad that will serve as a wading/water volleyball/ water basket ball area. In front of the block (in the pictures) there is a flat area that will be 6' deep. On this flat area I plan on creating a roughly 15' x 20' island by using the block to come up out of the water and then fill the interior with dirt and in a sense creating a giant pot. I would like to plant a weeping willow on this island but I am concerned about the leaf litter causing problems down the road? I plan on putting a floating 10' x 20'dock with a 10' long by 8' wide ramp that will go off of the point of the 3rd picture. I am hoping to be able to afford to do the dock out of Ipe wood. Some of my thoughts/plans so I am hoping to get any input to help me avoid any pitfalls that I may be missing and it is more than a little likely that I am missing a lot.

As to the questions above. I am still dealing with the liner company so I don't have all the answers and pending on how the experience turns out will determine if I can recommend the company or not. With the pond being a little bigger I am not sure if it will come in one piece or not. It will weigh 4000 to 5000 pounds I'm guessing and I will need a fork lift of some sort to get it into the pond and then some equipment to help roll it out. Stay tuned and as I learn more and actually have to install I will be better able to answer your questions. As for measurements they have just had me take various lengths and widths. It should be interesting.

As I stated earlier, we lined a 1 acre pond 20 years ago.
It came in sections,which were rolled out and then seamed.
No problems with it, so far. Doing a couple more ponds later this year.

If you plant a weeping willow, aren't you inviting it to root through the liner? I understand they are notorious for seeking out water. If anyone has experience here, please share.
Greg

Looks like you have quite a bit of momentum in this direction. If you run into any bumps and are willing to entertain a "natural" lining option we'd love to help out. We're headquartered here in Phoenix, AZ and I can put you in touch with Ron Ciardella our Vice President of Field Operations. We've worked with a lot of fisheries, lakes, and ponds over the years This looks like a nice project. www.seepagecontrol.com

Have a great week! Vance C.

In answer to the question about the willow rooting through the liner - it should not be a problem since there will be a cement bottom, thus the roots will not be able to reach the liner.

Here are few pics. Two liner rolls. One is just over 3,000 pounds and the other one is over 7,000 lbs and about 7' tall. The plan is to seam them together this Tuesday. I will then start on the dock and cement work.

http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/Pond%
202010/Liner/P1010148.jpg

http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/Pond%202010/Liner/P1010163.jpg

http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/Pond%202010/Liner/P1010189.jpg

http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/Pond%202010/Liner/P1010190.jpg

Finally getting to fill the pond! well most of the way. still not finished with the dock and I still need to stain the shot crete but getting close...

Here are some updated pictures.

http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/P1010203.jpg
http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/P1010219.jpg
http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/P1010282.jpg
http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/langstrum1/P1010283.jpg

Very, VERY cool Langstrum! You're going to absolutely love the final result!