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#20878 07/03/04 04:21 PM
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Hi,

this site is real informative!

Have seen other posts on this site on my same problem but like others, would like some info about my personal situation.

I have a pond in Oklahoma, spring fed, stays prety cool, about 15 feet deep, about 1/2 acre. Water varies in color/clearness, throught the year and if you guys neeed to know more about the water later I will tell you what I can. I have no clue of the quality of the water. This pond has kind of a clay bottom, I dont think it has much plant growth on the bottom. Has a shallow neck with a lot of dead trees. And a few other necks/structure in it. Pond is about 5-7 years old.

Now to the good stuff, I want to make it the best trophy bass pond possible with what I have to work with. Not much on eating bass but I can for the good of the pond! Anyway it has a few hybd perch, a lotta bullhead, maby 10 channel cats, and a few sunfish. Also about 20 bass.

So how would you guys go about making this pond into a bass pond? I would like to keep the bass in it/alive if I can, but if they must be removed for fatheads to multiply I guess thats ok. Is there chemicals for getting the "unwanted" fish out. Maby electro survey could memove them, or is that only for sampling?

Thats my first problem I guess is removing all fish? if not then please explain. Also could you guys help put a cost on these methods? And I may be all wrong, so someone please tell me what you would do if this was your pond. I can explain more about the pond if needed, but thats about all I know about it. Please take a step by step of how to take it from where it is to where I want to be. As far a stocking, if you guys recomend to fish for them or buy them makes no difference to me.

Thanks for listinging, and your help (sorry about spelling, heheh I dont know if I even spelled anything wrong.) Hope you guys can figure this out.


The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Or I have been told.
#20879 07/03/04 10:08 PM
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First, are you a "Pond Boss" subscriber? If not, that's your first starting point. The subjects covered in PB issues mostly pertain to your stated desires and questions. Besides, PB subscriptions help support this website.

Second, you may want to obtain the book "Raising Trophy Bass", which will provide a better understanding of a healthy fishery environment.

There are no short (and accurate) answers to renovating a pond to suit ones desires. Just do your homework and learn the pros & cons of the different management options before getting underway.

Rotenone is a chemical used to kill off existing fish prior to restocking (requires a pesticide license to purchase/use). And, it would likely be best to remove the bullhead before going any further. Unfortunately, bullhead will be the last specie to give up the ghost to rotenone. So, you may want to catch and relocate any fish that you wish to keep - alive.

#20880 07/03/04 10:22 PM
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I tried to get that book and magazine, but it will not let me, when I hit check out, it dosent go anywhere. But I have already tried to purchase them and will try again.

One more question this Retenone, I only know what I have been told about it, and to my understanding it cuts off the oxygen of the pond and fish come to the top looking for oxygen. So is it possible to net bass when they come up and put them in a tank, or are they already dead once they surface? Once again I dont know if this is true only what I have been told, so if anyone could tell me how the chemical works or a link that explains it, it would be greatly appericated.

Thanks for your help.


The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Or I have been told.
#20881 07/04/04 06:31 AM
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JB,
Just do a little searching on this site. A quick search produced many threads here's one:

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000094

If you're really serious you should get the mag. As you can see in the above thread there was an article in Pond Boss on Rotenone. The mag. along with this site will be the cheapest & smartest investment you make toward your pond!


Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner


If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
#20882 07/04/04 10:54 AM
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JB -- once fish get a sufficient dose of rotenone to kill them, it can't be reversed. So, by the time they come to the top of the water, it is almost always too late to save them. You'll need to do any transfer of fish prior to applying the rotenone.

We used to be allowed to use sodium cyanide to kill fish, and it was a reversible treatment. When the fish came to the top, we'd quickly net them, and put them in fresh water. Often (not 100%), we could revive them. However, we can longer use this chemical, for obvious reasons.

Dave


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From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
#20883 07/04/04 03:42 PM
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Thanks again everyone, you guy have been real helpful. One lask question, I really what to remove as many bass a possible, so besides fish them out any other suggestion? Perhaps the electro survey could get most of them? I hope once again you guys can shed some light on this. O and I am trying to get the book/mag.


The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Or I have been told.
#20884 07/05/04 11:00 AM
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JB -- I would suggest that you just concentrate on selective removal of small bass by angling (if you decide that is your best course of action), and keep doing it. I think Kelly was inferring that you might want to consider removing all fish at this time, just to get a more appropriate mix of species in your pond.

When we do an electrofishing survey, we often think that we get roughly 10% of the bass in a pond on the first lap around the pond. Now, this is VERY rough, you can't hold me to it, and it varies depending on a lot of things. Every subsequent lap, you are less effective because you have warned the bass that you are there.

Electrofishing is nonlethal (generally speaking), so you could electrofish and hold fish for restocking.

Your pond is only 1/2 acre, so maybe they could get more than 10% on the first run -- less place for them to hide offshore in deep water where the electrofishing boat is less effective.

Hope this helps,
Dave


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From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
#20885 07/05/04 02:43 PM
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Dave - Sodium cyanide? for fish control? Sounds like an extremely risky proposition. Dynamite would likely be safer!

I used M-44s while in high school for predator (coyote) control. However, such activities required carrying the antidote (inhaled amly nitrate) on one's person since 30-60 seconds is the necessary "response time" should an accident occur.

#20886 07/05/04 05:29 PM
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Kelly-- I probably should quit telling my old war stories about the cyanide (we did this back in the mid 70s). However, it was great for sampling, especially for stream sampling. It came in small white briquets, about the size of a characoal briquet. One briquet per cfs (cubic foot/second) of stream volume, and fish would float up through the next couple of pools. We'd put a block net at the start, and near the bottom, and then set up tanks of fresh water at regular intervals. The cyanide was reverible, if the fish didn't get too much, and you quickly got them in fresh water. If we hurried, and netted fish quickly, they could be revived. Meanwhile, the cyanide was just a gas dissolved in the water, so by about the seccond riffle, it would escape into the atmosphere, and no more fish effects.

I can also remember using it in a gravel pit in Colorado. We put the briquets in a burlap bag, and towed the bags behind boats. As the largemouth bass started to pipe on the surface, we'd net them, and put them in fresh water tanks to revive them.

I'm telling stories like a old-time fish squeezer, aren't I?? It's hard to believe that we used something so dangerous, with so little concern. We sure didn't carry an antidote, even though we were wading through streams with the cyanide gas coming off around us.

Anyway, that's the explanation.

Dave


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From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
#20887 08/09/04 02:01 PM
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Just an update.

I have decided to remove all bullheads caught, by the way if about 100+ so far. (no telling how many left in there) My hope is that bass can eat most all the fry, before they get big enough to reproduce, and once again I know that I will never get them all out. But In the next 3 weeks I plan on at least an hour a day fishing them out. And in the process of catching them, I have noticed I have a very nice supply of hybd perch, of all sizes. And it turns out there may be more channel cat in the pond than I think. Also on a worm I have caught two 4-5 inch fingerling bass, so I have a new crop of bass.

My thought is keep removing bullheads and possibly adding adult bluegil. IF so how many, 25-50. Maby I have enough perch, but I think it would help to diversify the food chain. Once again I would like to get the best trophy bass pond with what I have. (just a reminder there are about 20 reproducing bass in there now) Then from what I have listed can I afford more adult bass in my pond,(1-2 to 3-4A) or let nature take care of whats in there. Then if you guys think I need it then it is possible I could get a electro survey.


The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Or I have been told.
#20888 08/10/04 07:24 AM
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Also, if I started feeding with a feeder, and let the bullheads eat, and then shot them or is there any chance I could get a cast net out over them. Anyone know of a good trap for bullheads.


The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Or I have been told.
#20889 08/10/04 07:47 AM
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JB,
When I was a kid (a long time ago), I helped my grandpa set hoop net traps in the Sangamon river in Illinois. He would bait them with small burlap bags filled with cheese bait. We would check them twice a day and they were always loaded with cats, bullheads and carp. I have seen these traps for sale in the Netcraft catalogue. These traps might help you clean out your bullheads and you could throw back your desirable fish.

Brad B.

#20890 08/10/04 08:07 AM
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Thanks brad, I wiill see if I can find them.


The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Or I have been told.
#20891 08/10/04 08:37 AM
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JB -- here are several websites for nets. However, please check with your local conservation agency before you buy and use them. Some states will let you use these gears on private waters, but others won't. Some require a permit, and others don't. I don't know what the rules are for the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. Best to check.

Dave

http://www.nylonnet.com/index.html

http://www.memphisnet.net/

http://www.sterlingnets.com/trap_nets.html


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From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
#20892 08/10/04 10:50 AM
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with a 1/2 acre pond i think you should fish it for fun.there is not alot you can do with a pond this size.after you read some of these books you will find that most say it's hard to do anything with a pond less than 1 acre and this is still hard at this size.i would not think you could grow more than a few big fish in this pond and that would only be possible working very hard.good luck,you might read some of these books before you start throwing money at this problem.

#20893 08/11/04 08:31 PM
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Thanks for advice everyone.

Fish-I will probally fish most of them out, but a little help wont hurt. My neighbor has a pond smaller than mine and its has the best bass fishing around. I have seen 7-8pounders pulled from it, and every other one is 3-4. Also it has never been managed, maby a one in a million pond, but I know it is possible to have a good small sized bass pond in my part of the world. And I read raising trophy bass, and your right it says you need a little bigger pond than mine. So once again thanks everyone.


The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. Or I have been told.

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