Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait hello i'm a newbie w/ a farm pond

Hello, wanted to say hey, and wow what a neat forum. found ya'all searching for info on golden shiner rearing. We have a pond we made in a wet-spot on our farm ,in Cassopolis MI., in a crp deal we did. Now the crp is up and not going back in.pond is around .75acre and average 4ft deep w/ a few 6+ deeper holes.It is fed by a high water table and a really small surface crick.water clarity is good w/ a marl bottom. We have a natural lake adjoining the farm and many lakes near by that we fish. The kids and I thought raising minnows for bait would be a fun thing to do... There are natually occuring frogs,turtles, and planlife but no fish that i've seen. My initial questions are 1: is the golden shiner a good choice? 2: is there a "best" time to stock? water temp, after plants are growing again? 3: would the pond be suitable for other larger fish?
I know i've got more reading to do, but thanks for the opinions in advance.
bullyandbif

Good Morning! Welcome to PB. You are in a good fishing area, I've fished Stone Lake many times. The largest LMB that I've taken in MI was from there, right at 6#. It has some pretty good BG and large YP in there as well. Are those Swans still back in the corner during the Summer?

I don't know if you'd get winterkill with that shallow of a pond, and with getting the amount of snow and ice that happens there during the winter, it's a good possibility. I'm sure you could put larger fish in there if you ran an aerator during the winter, but without doing that I think it'd be iffy. How do you plan on harvesting the miniows?

Welcome - another northerner. Great. Your shallow pond probably experiences periodic winter kills depending on wind exposure (snow removal) and the amount and duration of snow cover. Any way to get a track-hoe in there and crate a deeper pool in one area or end? With some age on the pond, the max depths may not be 6 ft, but closer to 4.5-5'?. In your region, the deeper you can get to 8'-12' even in one small area the better chances that sportfish will survive long term esp if the deep pool is aerated. I have a 7 ft deep pond (w/windmill aeration) in NW OH for minnow production and if you can keep some ice fairly snow free, winter kill is minimal or non-existant. A 4 wheeler can plow snow. Without access (400-800 ft) to electricity, a widmill can help prevent winter kills. If you are interested in just minnow- shiner production, winter kill is not a major concern. Restart each spring with some brood fish and harvest the crop in fall.

Well them swans have become a problem on all the lakes. they are a real PITA. Wonder if they taste good? This pond is still pretty rough, and I was just thinking minnows would be a project to do.For catching I thought traps would work, have large hardwarecloth traps i use in other lakes... Not sure if I care if they die over winter. Atleast for starters.Now that the crp is over I can do whatever I want to. I still have a dragline to move outta there and some grading that I want to do now that the GOV. cant tell me how to use my land.(i'm not whining about crp, it just wasnt the best deal for this piece of property.)I could make deeper spots if needed.(want to buy a dragline?) I was wanting to do something with what I have this summer.Would it be smart to go onto the pond and drill a hole in ice to see whats under? Anything I can check now to help determine what i can get for this spring?
If you google earth round lk by long and chain thats where I'm at, image seems a bit old but close.
I'm all ears on the ideas, as I don't know jack about ponds or fish raisin'.
bullyandbif

By all means, walk on out there and check the depth of the water thru the ice (providing the ice is thick enough). It's easy to get accurate measurements that way, and if you feel like drilling a few holes, you could probably map the whole pond bottom.

A dragline will help immensely. As long as you've still got it, and it can dig thru the marl I'd put it to work, trying to get down to 12'-13' if possible like Bill said, leaving a flat shelf at one end of the pond to seine out the minnows.

Fathead minnows typically spawn on the underside of stuff in shallow water, if you make a couple stacks of pallets in 2' of water or less, they will spawn on the underside of the pallets. Golden Shiners spawn in shallow grassy areas.

Bill, perhaps you have some ideas on this...

In ponds that have been around for at least a year with no fish in them, how bad can the predacious insect population get in them? I have read in some publications for raising baitfish that if one waits too long after filling a pond to introduce fish into it, predacious insects can be a big issue as they will heavily pray on the fry and young fish born in the pond.

I am wondering if this is the issue I am seeing in my one forage fish pond. It had no fish life in it for 3 years before I put fish in it. When I have worked in it, I have noticed many water insects like water scorpions which I know are predacious. Could stocking a dozen or so male only BG help control these while allowing your forage/baitfish to reproduce without the insects praying on their fry and YOY...

Any single sex panfish can help control insect populations and not see too much loss in YOY fish numbers. I had a small minnow pond with an over abundance of water boatmen. I added several (8-10) male BG and water boatmen mostly dissappeared after a couple months. After a year I never saw any more water boatmen. I rarely see any predacious insects in this pond.

Maybe something I will have to look into. This spring I may catch a dozen or so male BG off their nests and transfer them to my forage pond to help with this problem.

I'm sure that there is a healthy population of insects, of whatever varaity are in lower MI. The pond and surrounding wespots,puddles get tadpoles by the zillions is this good or bad for minnow rearing? From what i've read so far the areas w/ cattail and waterplants, some looks like wild rice type stuff growing in the shallow 1ft& less, along w/ underwater plants is a good thing for GSH minnows as they like cover.
Putting in BG to control insects at what qauntity? Is the (8-10)comment above # or size? Also single sex is not to start breeding ,or do males eat faster? Do they stay or get removed ? When to stock bug eaters and how long before adding minnows? I also take it that these tips refer to stocking the fry initially...or will the insects get the GSH if i stocked bigger and let them breed?
I am hopeing to check the water under the ice asap to see if i need to make deeper holes to make sure winters dont kill them off.
Hmm guess this post got long, sorry
bullyandbif

Yes, shallow vegetated areas are good for GSH to spawn and then for their fry to live in. The 8-10 comment refers to numbers, not size. That number should work for the size pond you are considering. It can be male or female only, one sex is picked so they do not reproduce. I like males as they are easier to catch in numbers in the spring when they are on their spawning beds. That way I can confidently ID them as males. All it takes in one mistake in sexing them and you have a mess. I would keep them in the pond to manage the insect population on a continuing basis. That is what I plan to do. You may need to stock 3 or 4 more every other year to keep up with annual mortality...

Right on, thanks alot for the info.
bullyandbif

I used to go to Diamond Lake up in Cassopolis every summer when I was a kid. Lots of Smallmouth, Rock Bass, and Yellow Perch. Is Bonnie and Clydes little restaurant still around?

Anyhow, If your looking to have a bait pond for this upcoming year, I would suggest stocking a box of golden shiner fry from anderson minnows in Mid May or so when they become available. Your one acre forage pond will be absolutely chuck full of shiners all summer and fall long! You need to call them about now though, cause they usually run out. Next you can also throw a couple pounds of fatheads in there once the ice comes off too. The fatheads will reproduce like crazy! I actually dont think you will have much luck with trying to stock adult golden shiners in the spring and then having them produce good bait for you by the end of summer. Fatheads reproduce way more predictably than shiners do up north.

GShiners will eat insects also. Add some adult GShiners in the spring if you are going to raise them.