Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Strat, Wholesale septic, Sledgehammer, Tiger4n, Chris22
15035 Registered Users
Forum Stats
15035 Members
36 Forums
34795 Topics
475787 Posts

Max Online: 1039 @ 03/28/13 02:44 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24012
Cecil Baird1 20043
ewest 18957
Dave Davidson1 13093
Theo Gallus 12332
Who's Online
9 registered (elnoseface, Brand0, Zep, sprkplug, azteca, John Fitzgerald, catmandoo, highflyer, scott69), 133 Guests and 391 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#205073 - 02/21/10 06:07 PM Need some dirt moving advice
bz Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 844
Loc: Minnesota
OK, so I'm starting to plan pond #3 and I have a dirt moving question for someone out there with the experience. I need to move about 6,000 cubic yards of dirt out of a hole. I am looking at whether to use a JD550 or something bigger like a D8. There will be excavator work required too but this dirt is probably going to have to be moved with a dozer. Assuming that is true, is there a rule of thumb that I can use to equate the cost comparison between the two machines. Of course the D8 will cost more but should move dirt faster. If it cost twice as much but moves dirt 4 times faster that would be a bargain. Anybody know a way to figure this? Thanks in advance.
_________________________
Gotta get back to fishin!

Top
#205085 - 02/21/10 07:53 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: bz]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
One part of the equasion is how far the dirt has to be moved.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#205086 - 02/21/10 08:15 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: esshup]
Brettski Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 6867
Loc: Illinois
As I recall, bz, you ran the heavy equipment on your first pond, so you are well ahead of most of us on the subject.
I paid the man to do it with our pond construction, but I did learn that the blade can make a huge diff, even on the smaller machine.
_________________________


Top
#205237 - 02/22/10 10:10 AM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: esshup]
rexcramer Offline
Lunker

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 285
Loc: Birch Run, MI
 Originally Posted By: esshup
One part of the equasion is how far the dirt has to be moved.


Bingo. Dozers are REALLY bad at moving material over any kind of distance. A guy running a medium sized excavator can bail, move, and bail a pile of dirt A LOT faster than a guy on a big dozer like a D8, and use half the fuel at the same time. Get a 325 or 330 excavator along with your little dozer and you can get a lot of work done
_________________________

Top
#205266 - 02/22/10 12:48 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: rexcramer]
Ryan Freeze Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 1285
Loc: Southwest Ohio
How about a dozer and a pan?
_________________________


"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." Stephen W. Hawking

Top
#205312 - 02/22/10 06:59 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: Ryan Freeze]
bz Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 844
Loc: Minnesota
I knew someone would suggest bailing it with an excavator. I'm personally not experienced enough to know if that really is faster than a large dozer. I need to move the dirt an average of 150 feet. The closest dirt to the place I will pile it will be moved almost nothing while the farthest dirt will be moved 300 feet. The area is about symmetrical with half the dirt closer than 150 feet and half of it farther. I can't get anthing in there without tracks for sure. You are correct Brettski, the last time I dug I rented a dozer and an excavator. I don't remember the excavator size but it was a medium large machine with a 2 yard bucket. It was one of those shorter stick larger bucket rigs versus a long stick small bucket. It had a reach of about 30 feet. Do you guys think if I can get a similar machine that it will move it way faster than the 550 dozer even if I have to move some of it 300 feet? That would mean bailing it over about 5 times. Thanks for any input.
_________________________
Gotta get back to fishin!

Top
#205313 - 02/22/10 07:04 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: bz]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
IIRC a while back Otto said something to the effect:

Moving dirt <50 Yds a dozer is most effecient. Next if on site and there's room, a pan scraper. Excavator and truck is only for farther distances, or where the scraper can't dump dirt. Even then, you need something to spread it out.

Otto, am I remembering correctly??
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#205335 - 02/22/10 10:32 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: esshup]
bz Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 844
Loc: Minnesota
Sounds about right esshup, my problem is I can't get a truck in there, too soft. So if I use an excavator I will have to scoop it numerous times to get it moved. As far as I know, my only options are dozer, excavator, combination thereof, or the old fashioned drag line. I haven't seen one of those in years.
_________________________
Gotta get back to fishin!

Top
#205341 - 02/22/10 11:19 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: bz]
rexcramer Offline
Lunker

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 285
Loc: Birch Run, MI
Since you already have a dozer again I vote for the biggest excavator you can afford. You can pile dirt A LOT higher with an excavator, and once you get in a rythym its a lot faster than you think. Only the dirt moving the farthest will have to be bailed five times, from then it gets easier and easier.

Dozers break a lot and drink fuel like they have a hole in the tank. If you think bailing dirt over and over again is a pain, try pushing it with a dozer over and over again. If your other excavator had a 2 yd bucket it was a decent sized machine. Rent the machine for a week, take a week off work, and then in between rentals clean things up with your dozer.

Have fun
_________________________

Top
#205354 - 02/23/10 06:15 AM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: rexcramer]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13093
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Dozers break a lot and drink fuel. Yep. Over the years, I've probably had 8 or 10 dozers or loaders on my land. Only 2 haven't broken down in some way. One was new and the other was really old. 6 gallon fuel cans don't go very far.

At one time I was looking to buy one. However, putting tracks back on one will make you hate anything colored yellow.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

Top
#205355 - 02/23/10 08:12 AM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Ryan Freeze Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 1285
Loc: Southwest Ohio
150', no doubt a pan is what you need.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eae0ItqYFbA
_________________________


"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." Stephen W. Hawking

Top
#205589 - 02/24/10 04:10 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: Dave Davidson1]
james holt Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 1712
Loc: gainesville texas
I have moved dirt with a pan behind a tractor, a dozer an excavator and a shovel and I like them all. The pan is very good at removing dirt and then taking it somewhere and dumping it but you can't dig as steep a bank and you need a longer ramp as you get deeper. The dozer is not so good at moving it long distances. The excavator is really the best at digging a hole but not so good at taking it somewhere else. I reccomend them all. Use the excavator for the digging the pan for hauling it off and the dozer for smoothing it all out when you are done.

Top
#205590 - 02/24/10 04:11 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: james holt]
james holt Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 1712
Loc: gainesville texas
Sorry I forgot to ask is there a budget?

Top
#205635 - 02/24/10 08:54 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: james holt]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
James:

You make a good point. We used an excavator for 95% of the digging of my pond, but we also loaded the pan with the excavator to help move the dirt. I also had a dump truck, rented a backhoe, and a dozer. We also had an ASV on site for most of the renovation as well.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#205669 - 02/25/10 12:51 AM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: esshup]
bz Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 844
Loc: Minnesota
Great input from you all. Is there a budget, of course. I'm just trying to figure out the cheapest plan of attack and then will estimate cost to see what it comes to. I'll find out if I can afford it. The pond will be less than 1 acre so I'm hoping to keep it under $5K. I can get the 2 yard excavator for $350 per day. I figure it's about 6000 cubic yards to move. I'll have to make some assumptions and sit down and figure out how long it will take to move that much dirt. Yes Ryan I've seen those "pans". Since my area is only 1 acre and I have no room around the perimeter to pull a pan (the perimeter is either swamp or trees) I really don't think I have the room to use one. I also think the cost would be higher since I'd have to also rent a larger dozer to pull one and rent the pan. I'll run some numbers on the excavator. I've pushed a lot of dirt with dozers and I think you guys are correct that the excavator will be quicker unless I get a really big one, that's why I'm asking. Just looking at a one acre area where I'm just scraping off 5 feet of peat I would think a D9/D10 would move it pretty quick. Funny story, I've used the excavator to move dirt over distances before. The quickest way is to take up a full scoop, get the machine spinning full speed around to 180 and dump while spinning, then you can keep right on spinning to a full 360 and not stop until ready to pick up another scoop. I think the one I rented last time would do 360 in about 6 seconds. I got so dizzy doing that for only a few minutes that I couldn't walk straight for 2 hours. I think you need to be astronaut material to operate those things at high speed.


Edited by bz (02/25/10 12:56 AM)
_________________________
Gotta get back to fishin!

Top
#205689 - 02/25/10 09:30 AM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: bz]
james holt Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 1712
Loc: gainesville texas
If you rent a d10 or a d9 I want to come over to PlaY! I have never been on anything even close to that big!

Top
#205730 - 02/25/10 04:49 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: james holt]
bz Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 844
Loc: Minnesota
Ya, I bet I won't have trouble finding some buddies to help dig will I? I don't know where I can rent one that big but I figured if it could be done faster then I would get some quotes to have someone haul one in and do the digging. There is a small construction company in the area that has something that looks like about that size. It's a different make so I'm not sure but it has about a 14 or 16 foot wide blade with about 4 or 5 foot wide tracks. Looking at the size of that thing I'd think it could move my dirt in a day or two. Might be worth the price versus renting anything for 6 or 8 days. From what I've seen they will just quote me a price per day and tell me that they'll dig until they are done or until my budget runs dry. That's usually how they do ponds around here. So I really need to know which way is the quickest especially before I hire someone. Of course anyone I talk to no matter what type of equipment will tell me they can do the job, they just won't quote how long it will take nor whether there is a better set of equipment than what they have available. So I'm kinda on my own to figure out the best aproach and then compare renting versus hiring.
_________________________
Gotta get back to fishin!

Top
#205739 - 02/25/10 07:46 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: bz]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 3261
Loc: el dorado ca
bz, why not something in the middle like a d4 high track?

we used a cat 320c excavator w/ a 4 ft bucket and thumb to dig and pile, and the d4 to move it out. although a wheel loader would have been faster in my situation, the dozer did the job.

two of us did the majority of work on my ~1 acre pond in a weeks time. i set up an account and rented from holt, they were excellent at responding to a couple breakdowns we had.

good luck.
_________________________
GSF are people too!


Top
#205741 - 02/25/10 08:08 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: Dave Davidson1]
james holt Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 1712
Loc: gainesville texas
I was curious to look up some of the stats on a d9 its operating weight is 105000 pounds and has a fuel tank of 235 gallons. The d10 has an operating weight of 146000 lbs and a fuel tank of 325 gallons.

Top
#205743 - 02/25/10 08:34 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: james holt]
Brettski Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 6867
Loc: Illinois
Wouldn't that kinda weight require special permits for transportation?
_________________________


Top
#205746 - 02/25/10 08:41 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: Brettski]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Yep, I think they're called super permits? There are different levels of permits.
_________________________
www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

Top
#205752 - 02/25/10 09:28 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: esshup]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 3261
Loc: el dorado ca
and a wide load permit which also requires a pilot car
_________________________
GSF are people too!


Top
#205773 - 02/26/10 01:04 AM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
bz Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 844
Loc: Minnesota
I knew this was coming, I don't know how would someone get a large machine like that to my place? The roads aren't even made to take that weight but they must have a way. I haven't even checked yet to see if anyone in my area can move one to my place. Just the moving sounds expensive. I could probably get a good deal on the purchase of the D10 in this picture.

DIED, your suggestion of a combo excavator and medium dozer was my first thought too.




Edited by bz (02/26/10 01:05 AM)
_________________________
Gotta get back to fishin!

Top
#205823 - 02/26/10 03:00 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: bz]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 3261
Loc: el dorado ca
that dozer has a blade full now!

i've seen the larger yellow iron broken down on trailers, then assembled at jobsite.

mob and demob charges go up accordingly.

no special permits were required for the size of equipment i rented.
_________________________
GSF are people too!


Top
#205870 - 02/26/10 10:27 PM Re: Need some dirt moving advice [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
james holt Offline
Lunker

Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 1712
Loc: gainesville texas
I have found the answer to all of your dirt moving problems. The Komatsu d575 superdozer. It is the largest dozer in the world with a weight of 300,000 pounds plus or minus. I have found a 1998 model for only 800,000 dollars. It has a ninety yard blade.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Today's Birthdays
Bill Cook, Bossone, hugh greer, Kris C5
Recent Posts
100% Green Sunfish
by Jim Wetzel
06:16 PM
Southern Specklebelly Sunfish - SSS
by Jim Wetzel
06:11 PM
Crayfish for human consumption.
by Jim Wetzel
05:57 PM
Brush PIle for Pond
by 2blade
04:17 PM
A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish
by John Fitzgerald
01:44 PM
Dave Davidson Gift Keeps On Giving!
by FireIsHot
11:53 AM
Another Otter bites the dust
by snrub
10:17 AM
"policy" on old content resurrection?
by sprkplug
07:50 AM
Best Source For Large Redears............
by snrub
11:56 PM
Known Hybrids Based on Pumpkinseed Dam
by sprkplug
10:31 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Sand Quarry
Cactus Blum Ranch proposed pond
Cactus Blum Ranch proposed pond
Cracked Valve Housing
Indoor Dwarf Sagittaria tank.
#MAFA

2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide