Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Type of forage fish for Deep Forage pond???

Well its getting that time of year again... stocking fish.

I'm trying to decide what to do with a .5 acre pond I have. I drained it in January to do a complete fish kill then refilled it. Its around 12ft deep and has fairly steep banks hence it is a lot of deep water. Im looking at making it a forage pond however the depth is probably gonna make it a real hassle to harvest my forage fish out to transport. Anyone have any ideas on what I could do? and... How to go about doing it? I don't really want to drain the pond again to harvest fish, its really far from water to refill it and not very easy at all.

I'd be looking at forage such as golden shiners, or CNBG for example.

Its either make a forage pond if at all possible or just stock it up and turn it into a Florida Bass growout pond and just tranfer floridas out yearly. I already have ponds dedicated to this though.

Also, i don't really need it for recreational purposes like a catfish, HSB, or big bluegill pond. I just want to use it to help the larges lakes that I have that could use a forage boost or genetic upgrades.

Any ideas?

That would be really big for a forage pond unless you were some kind of larger commercial operation, I would think.

I think a grow-out pond is a good idea. How would you harvest the fish for placement in the bigger ponds?

Yeah, I have some smaller ones but they usually for the most part are shallower and not really setup all that well. I have a .33 acre pond thats 6-8ft that im gonna use as a forage pond also. That one im thinking for sure about growing CNBG.

As far as being too big. We have a 30acre, two 7acre, and a 4acre that I would be distributing fish to. These all have Bluegill as their ONLY forage for the bass.

Thats why I thought about Golden shiners maybe. T-shad would be nice but I don't feel i can handle them properly as they are hard to transport.

That's a big and DEEP pond to be working in collecting forage. Not saying it can't be done, but it would just be a lot of work. GSH would work, particularly if you can lower it a few feet in the fall, plant some rye grass along the edge and then flood the grass before the GSH spawn. The GSH would love that sorta of spawning location.

Tilapia?

CJB, yep its not exactly a textbook pond for something like this but I thought i'd "pick the brains" of you experts to try to come up with some realistic options if there are any in this case.

Tilapia... I don't really know if I could harvest them efficiently enough for it to be worthwhile in the lakes they would go in...

I don't know im still trying to work something out.

How about trying something new... How about some lake chubsuckers? Overton's is selling them now. Is there any vegetation in the pond? Is the water fairly clear, is the water on the soft side? If so, the lake chubsuckers should do well...

Instead of seining, what about using a fyke net?

or a fishing pole, if you cant harvest tilapia very efficiently than how are you going to harvest really anything that you stock in the pond?

or if harvesting forage is not feasible for you, why not make it an experimental pond with something like smallmouth bass or yellow perch or something along those lines.

A hodge podge pond might be cool. You know, put as many species in as you can find without overpopulating.

One thing that keeps me from getting bored at my pond is not knowing what I'm going to catch at any time.

Is there any shallower area in the pond? Say 4-5 feet deep? If so, you could set up a corral type net and feed only inside the net farthest from the opening. The fish will feel sfe feeding there and when harvest time comes, simply feed, wait a few minutes, then close the corral opening. This would work VERY well with tilapia. They could spawn unimpeded and provide a nearly limitless supply of forage, both in the prouction and destination ponds/lakes. Fish could be harvested by dip net or about any other means once they are captives, depending on the size of the corral. Another good method would be using a "Lift" net setup that can be rapidly raised from beneath the fish while they feed.

The overall depth and steep banks just about make it ill suited for a catchable forage pond without a bunch of workarounds. I think deep forage pond is the problem in itself. If you have no problem fishing for the forage fish I would load it up with cnbg and a feeder. I can usually catch 40-50 per hour humpin it with ultra lite tackle on a similar setup. 80 in two hours and I am done. I get fisherman's elbow after that. If you have kids or friends have kids you can make a day of it and everybody is happy.

hmm, i may have one area suitable for a corral net trap but i'll have to check it out today and let you guys know this evening at the lastest.

My biggest hope is to succeed in trying to establish another type of forage in the large lakes we have. It might take 100's or ponds of Golden shiners to establish in say a 30 acre lake. I can't set aside that kind of funds to just buy the fish and put them in. I have the pond and think i could grow tons of forage in .5 acre. I just thought why not give it a try if possible.

I think it is possible. You juat have to figure out how to best harvest.

Are you trying to set up a forage fish breeding pond? Do you want forage that gets big or remains smallish even grown out? Are you looking at just having a forage grow out pond?

There are only a certain number of species to choose from if you are looking at a new forage species to propagate in the pond. You don't have to stick with just one species in this pond. It is large enough to establish and propagate several... Only small numbers of each species need to be stocked, allowed to spawn and then harvested out for transfer to your fishing ponds. Some species to consider for this pond:

Lake chubsucker
Golden shiner
Red shiner
Mimic shiner
Weed shiner
Taillight shiner
Inland Silverside
Blackstripe topminnow
Bullhead minnow
Fathead minnow

All these species are adapted to life in ponds and lakes. They will successfully reproduce in them... Some better than others though. Some species may be available commercially, others would have to be collected from the wild in small numbers and then propagated in your forage pond. A year or two of them reproducing without predation in your forage pond and you'd have 100's of pounds to stock in other lakes and ponds... Obviously, there are other forage species, to include shads, sunfish, tilapias, etc, but this selection is straight up forage and nothing but forage in use. My opinion of top species to acquire and propagate would be in order:

Lake chubsucker(can reach larger sizes, in excess of a foot, allowing some adults to grow big enough to avoid predation and continue a self reproducing population)
Inland silverside(excellent addition for crappie and HSB ponds or lakes, similar to TFS in temp requirements)
Blackstripe topminnow(loves weed choked shallow areas when in ponds with predators)
Weed shiner and Mimic shiner(similar in appearance and behavior to GSH but doesn't get overgrown)

Stocking those four species and then using seines and traps, one can collect good numbers to transfer to other ponds even in a deep steep sided pond.

I checked out the pond today more closely, I have a cove that is deep but maybe usable. I can probably stretch across 100ft of 10ft wide by 1/4" net across the cove similar to a blocking net but have it tied up on poles that I can quickly release to drop the net down trapping the fish withen it. If I stretch across 100ft i can trap off about 40ft out from the tip of where the cove ends. This should be plenty of room. It might be 8ft deep where the net would drop, but I could then slowly pull it in the cover and hopfully seine them out from there maybe even using the same net.

Does this sound doable...

Pond Frog... As for what I want, I just want to establish more forage options in my large bass ponds. In a perfect world I'd like to make it a T-shad forage pond. Where I could distribute them to my larger lakes. I just don't know If i could handle them properly after all i've heard.

Also, CJB, i like the chubsucker idea. I just don't know if i can get some adults to use as brooders, i know todd O has them but not sure if he has brooders to sell that would spawn this spring...

Im gonna try to get him to look at this thread when and post up some info.

As a kid in the northeast, I caught some big suckers in streams. Were these chubsuckers?

He probably should have a good crop of 1 year old fish this spring as I doubt he sold all his YOY off from last year... We'll see what he has to say when he checks in. Bill Cody and I still aren't sure, but it appears chubsuckers mature at age 2 or 3... I am hoping 2, but guessing most likely 3.

sent Todd a pm for his take,

Anyone else have suggestions or ideas

Use this method with any fish that eats pellets. Use the feeder to concentrate the fish and then pull in the net while they eat. Wait a few weeks and do it again. You can keep the numbers under control by removal like this.

What are the length, width dimensions of this pond and its shape, oval squareish, rectangular? I think the pond could grow lots of g.shiners either with feeding or fertilizing. Poly culture with another species is a definate option. I would definately use some sort of seine 8-10 ft deep x 100-150ft long to periodically harvest. If fish are fed pellets you could easily concentrate them by adding good and then as ewest suggests slowly pull the seine to shore enclosing feeding fish. Seining will get the most fish the easiest and quickest. Angling for forage fish will take lots of time to get enough to stock the size of waters you have. If you decide to discontinue the forage pond the seine can readily be sold.

Sounds like a plan to me. Ewest, I was thinking of something along the lines of your drawing in a previous post but that looks definitly like a good idea.

Bill, the pond is actually circular with one minor cove that is rather short and stubby, however this is probably going to be the place for the trap.

Im definitly thinking about various species but I really only seem to have the option of aquireing G. shiners and chubsuckers if they prove to be an option if I can get brooders etc. Also im wondering about feeding the chubsuckers, I know the shiners take pellets etc. any difference in the chubs as far as growing habitat and feeding?

I did not have any sucess trying to grow LCS in a cage. Don't plan on them eating pelleted foods. I babied them every way I could think of and they bascially starved. I think they prefer natural foods that comprise the pond periphyton (attached benthic algae community), aufwuchs, or the growth layer on top of the sediments (epipelic and epipsammic communities). LCS may do best in ponds that have a larger percentage of shallow water areas (0-4 ft deep - littoral).
If your other ponds tend to have a shortage of BG then consider GSH and BG.