Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Controlling unwanted plants Controlling Cattails

Hello all. I have about 10 acres of a 15-20 acre lake/pond on my property that has been unmaintained for 30+ years. It has a significant cattail population along my shoreline that I would like to start getting control of. As suggested on this forum I thought I would cut them down to ice level this winter as a first step. I am talking about possibly 1-2 acres of cattails though. Does anyone have a suggestion for the best tool to use for this job? I am thinking probably a gas trimmer with a brush blade but thought I would see if anyone had a better idea. Thanks.

I'd think about cutting a 15' wide path or so on each side of the cattails as a firebreak to the other cattails, wait for the wind to die down and torch 'em when there is snow on the ground.

With that many it will be hard to keep them in check due to the extensive root system. You might be able to control them with herbacides, but I'll let one of the Guru's say for sure.

BTW, welcome to the Forum!

I'm with Esshup. I would burn off as much as you can, to remove some of the biomass that will drop down and accumulate in the pond come spring. I'm skeptical however cutting them off at the ice level will control them. I know I've read it in literature but I have serious doubts.

I have a no tolerance policy with my cattails. I've love to have just a few but it doesn't work that way. At least not in my ponds. They take over in a hurry.

My best luck had been with a herbicide. As soon as I see them I zap them with it. Once they turn yellow and die I cut them off with a weed cutting tool that consists of two long very sharp bladed in a 'v' pattern.

Cecil:

I've seen what they can do to a small pond if left alone. A ranch that I had permission to train Springers on had a couple of tanks that were completely surrounded by cattails, making them unuseable. The only way to get to any water was the paths that the cattle made thru them to get to the water.

Every time I walked around my pond last year I pulled up some cattails that were trying to grow. I figure if I can stop them before they get started, I'll have a fighting chance. I noticed that even plants that are 1' tall are starting to grow rhizomes.

Before I renovated the pond, there was one area that was pretty thick with cattails. While it's not approved for pond use, (I didn't care, the area was going to be dug up anyway) I mixed up a stronger ratio than it called for of Round-up and non-ionic surficant with a shot of 2-4-D and sprayed the cattails and yellow pond lilies in that area of the pond. It took two sprayings a couple of weeks apart, but I killed them. I burned the stalks above the pond that Winter, and I was amazed to see the dead cattails still standing in the water the following Fall, about 15 months after I killed them.

Cattails do make great cover for pheasants and other upland game birds in the winter. Just not the best option for recreational fishing and swimming ponds!

Good Morning All,

Thanks for the replys. I had thought about burning but, as some others on the site have found, dry cattails provide a fast-burning, hot, intense fire. Might be difficult to safely control, as my shoreline as a lot of tall dry grass. Still haven't ruled it out though.

Cecil, I agree that this won't be a complete solution and that herbicides will likely be necessary. I am also planning on using one of the v-shaped cutters to deal with new growth. My main goal this winter is to prevent more biomass from accumulating in the lake.

My ultimate long-term goal would be to return some of the depth to the edges of the lake through dredging or excavating but that may never be financially feasible.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

PS: Can someone please tell me how to attach a picture (as opposed to entering a URL for one)? Thanks.

Edit: Here is a picture of part of the lake (hopefully it works). [img][/img]

Easily done! Look here.

I think the easiest way to minimize the fire potential is to burn them on a day with no wind, after the firebreak is made, with snow on the ground. Hopefully it will snow after the firebreak is made to help it work as designed. The grass could just be flattened at the same time that the firebreak is made, and once that is covered with snow, the burn area of the cattails should be isolated. Burning will be the easiest way to reduce the biomass as well.

Forget burning them. The risk is enormous on a scale that large, wind or not. Believe me, they burst into flames wet or not if they are dead. Tried that once, never again. And even if you do burn them the rhizomes just laugh, and go undamaged. I have a weed wedge, or a flying v. No way here, too large of scale. Chemicals probably a no also. Cost and contamination concerns. I'd go mechanical.

I have one particular job now as I must come in compliance with Cal State inspectors on a spillway. These things are a nightmare and spread through rhizomes way faster than by seed. I'd estimate doubling every other year on shoreline. My customer had a guy come in and cut them all down when out of water. Burning would have the same effect. They cameback twice as thick, so they hired me.

I use the 3 S method. Submerge, suffocate and starve. Mechanical cut. Use the Jenson Lake Mower, I think they advertise here or something. The heavier HD5000. I am beta testing a new cutting head for them with control cattail patches. Have a lot of before and after photos. The new head especially designed for cattails and bulrushes is 50% thicker teeth and less serrations.

If you have any concerns or questions just ask.

I have had little luck burning my cattails. The leaves go up like flash paper but the stalks and especially the seed heads just seem to singe even after cutting them down, putting them in a pile and using gasoline as an excelerant. I now cut all of the seed heads off and put them out for the trash before cutting the stalks to the ice level. A larger weed eater with a brush cutting blade works like a champ on six groupings. 1-2 acres would be overwhelming. I would think that seed head elimination is key in battling future recruitment and waging chemical warfare in the spring and summer will begin to get the established stands in check.

Burning just makes smoke. Big flash and nothing accomplished. I have some pretty good case studies, one thorough one from Ohio State University. Cattails are close to indestructable. You either excavate them completely or kill them from the inside. And heavy spraying on that amount is going to be costly and potentially an environmental nightmare.

I would most assuredly go mechanical. There are a few industrial type cutters out there. A simple brush cutter may be a life long labor. But your best bet is my 3 S method. Submerge, cut them off below the surface, which Suffocates them by cutting off all air, and eventually Starves them. This works with almost any rhizome submerged plant. Other benefit is no seed heads or catkins ever form. It may take a few cuts, but on 1 or 2 acres worth, you don't have a lot of options. Also, in my area the number one method of spread by far is rhizome. I have a few areas started by seed, isolated, but almost all new growth is expansion from established growth. I have dozens of photos, and know the biology of this plant inside and out. You have to eradicate the rhizome.

Have used Habitat herbicide on them in the fall with a lot more success than Gly and Rodeo type products.The key with any herbicide on them will be complete coverage which can be difficult to do.Habitat has elimunated them for us where as Gly products severely reduced them.Either way youll need to remove the leftover carbon as it will remain. Have tried burning the remains off and this did not work well as most of the plant remains after burning. We use a Stihl string trimmer with a brush blade to cut off at ice level after herbicide treatment.You may find the ice very thin around the cattails as it normally does not produce ice in those areas like the open areas . We cut and then haul out by hand.Some of the more severe infestations that we have treated have now been clean for six years with a Habitat treatment. Be sure to check to see what products are labled in your area as it can vary greatly.

Pond Frog, We have tried to suffocate them as you mentioned and wonder if our lack of success was because some of the rhizome was also land based thus still supplying the inwater portion with life giving air and nutrients.I cant think of a situation in Ohio,Michigan or Indiana where we did not have some at least 2-3 ft up the shoreline even if they originally were confined to the water. I like the idea of suffocation however and will give this another attempt when I find an area that is 100% confined to the water.Your experience and comments appreciated.

Interesting on the Habitat vs. Gly (Rodeo). Is this because of the timing application in the fall?

A few things to add. If you cut down a lot of the growth there is a lot less to spray. And when using gly timing and application are critical for maximum results. Cattails have a protecting wax that actually repels herbicides. You should mix in one ounce of surfactant per gallon of it to get it to stick consistantly. If it is beading up and rolling off, you are wasting time, effort and money. After cutting a lot of old growth away, you will have new emergent growth, and the best time to apply that systemic is when the plant has maxed out it's rhizome to make seeds and is trying to replenish energy in its rhizome. The best intake of herbicides is right before the seed heads form. Also, you should remove all of the dead plants you can. Compost them is better than burning. But I do a little of both. I'll use the dried out cattails in a burn pit under old brush and bucked up logs. It sure gets the fire going. I have to look at this Habitat product.

Yes, I have some that have traveled from two feet out of the water to 10 feet under the surface. They seem to travel downward towards depth. But also straight out from side to side. What I do is weed wedge by hand or cut by hand the out of water and shallow parts, and either backhoe or manually dig out the rhizomes. This is in no herbicide areas. You need the entire plant to be submerged. But the actual air intake is from the leaves and stem. You have to cut, cut and recut until that rhizome is depleted or starved. The most difficult ones to eradicate are the ones that straddle the edge. I have dug up rhizomes twice as thick as a baked potato. I have to figure out how to get photos here. Sorry for my ignorance.

Funny you should mention Ohio. Even though I am way out in California, the best studies I have ever found on cattails are from Ohio State University Extension Fact Sheets. They are the best to educate and know thy enemy.

Looking at this Habitat it's a BASF special. Imazapyr, an enzyme inhibitor. Looks to be a good product. Do you use a adjuvant with it, if so what? Also where are you getting it and what is your normal cost? Is this much different from Arsenal?

If cattail control by surface application of herbicides is impractical as the waxy coating is a repellant, hows about, injecting it into every third stem with a hypodermic needle...(that would probably get into every rhisome)

That would maximise the effectiveness of the application?

Easier than trying to rip each and every cattail out...

Regards, andy
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

Habitat and Arsenal are "real similar" but are also worlds apart when it comes to labeling.No Arsenal aquatic label.With a lot of BASF products they seem to work better when meth or MSO (Methylated Seed Oil)is approved.We use strictly meth (soybean oil) @ 1% by volume vs a 90% nonionic surfactant.We dont want to stick the product but relieve the tension from water droplet or at least reduce the degree of angle the droplet naturally has or (make water wetter) is a popular understanding.A pond owner may have approx $110-$115.00 per acre in this mix at 3 pint per acre. The further south you are increase the rate to as much as 6 pt which is the max.We also like to color the mix with yellow or blue dye so we can see the coverage. Only spray this mix when the cats have full leaf elongation.(fall is best in the north)I agree the fact sheets from OSU are a good source but lack of funding many needed studies prevent them from being up to date at times. OSU has a fantastic Aquatics Manager in Bill Lynch who also provides the continuing education credits knowledge we need to to stay licensed.Bill is however very up to date with current products and trends.

You overcome the wax by getting a wetting agent called a surfactant on there in tandem with the herbicide. I don't think injecting them is feasible, especially on a large infestation. Pulling them out is impossible. I can tie off a 12 foot aluminum boat to just one, and they don't come out. They are incredibly strong laterally and are anchored solid by the rhizomes. Can I post photos from my pc saved on documents? IMG format?

Great info Ted. Yes the OSU docs are dated. But I think except for some minor tweeks they still apply. I love the dye approach for coverage indicator. I'll experiment with your guidelines on shoreline plants I can't submerge. It is a lot trickier on that type of stand. I agree the timing and application method are crucial. The key is getting the most product down to the rhizome. I have so many stands I can do product trials all over the place. Thanks for the input.

Although cutting down the cattails in the summer may not ultimately work, this looks like fun

Thanks for all the great info everyone.

An airboat with a front cutter. I'm asking Santa for that. Well my new toy arrived yesterday. The nice folks at Jensen Technologies are letting me beta test thier new cattail cutting head for the Lake Mower. I have three different condition cattail patches ready to go so I can side by side them for comparision. I'll be using the HD5000 on one of my 12 foot aluminum boats. Not an air boat, but when I use an extender I can get down 7 feet. Takes a lot of energy to get back to the surface from there. Stuff in the shallows or around rocks I'll use the weed wedge with handle. Stuff up on shore I'm testing new methods. Things I learned here. I'll report all findings to the forum.

Pond Frog's photos.

Fisrt like to thank Omaha for posting these photos for me, save me from typing 5,000 words I estimate.

OK, photo 1. Pond I manage. Issue: Cal State dam inspector says no cattails in the spillway or in front of it. Have to be in compliance so they hire someone to cut them down. Hmmm, come back twice as thick next season. That's the way they work, actually promotes denser stands and growth cutting old dead stuff down. But this is a before photo as I do the same thing. But for a different reason.

Photo 2. Big pile of dead stuff. Pretty much what was done last time, except I am prepping for underwater mowing. Move all big pond rocks back up into spillway. Leave dead material there for now, as water level is 9 feet down. Not bad for a blind guy.

Photo 3. View from other side of spillway. Entire shoreline on right unusable from cattails and willows. Not for long. There are now three different areas to test cut or mow. A cleaned up shore and in front of spillway. An evergreen patch that I cut back to only ten feet and deeper and straight across a untouched dead growth patch.

Photo 4. Odd patch only one in pond that never goes dormant. Was about 10 foot wide and long 5 years ago. 95% of expansion sideways, possibly because it established at max depth, which the other patches grow to. These plants could be over 12 feet tall. So much for the grows to ten feet. All rhizome spread.

Photo 5. Waterline 9 feet below full. Close up for in front of spillway first two photos. You can see how new growth already emerging in dead of winter with no water. Also how plants are slowly migrating downward towards deeper water. This was about 4 weeks after I cut them all back. Now under 4 feet of water.

My long term goal is to get in compliance with the state, and eradicate 95% of existing cattail stands. I'll leave one large stand for diversity, coots, large frogs and memories. Guidelines suggest leave around 5% of shoreline, I'm going closer to 3%. These cattails are king of the pond. Fast spreading, but block out usable shore and visual aspects. Going 3 S for most, weed shear for shallows and rocks, herbicides for shore and spillway rocks when dry and drawndown, when seed heads are almost out, rhizome spent and max intake. I'll take new photos of progress, and yes I do remove all material, but let nature help me get in all one spot.

Well day one of Jensen Lake Mower cattail testing. Although I have a special beta cattail test head I just went with normal one. Pond is two feet below full. I have a little bit of everything, old dry cattails, old dry bulrushes and green bulrushes. Cutting about 1 to 3 feet deep not using extender. Green bulrushes were easiest. Its the old dead stuff that is tough. Have to go real slow on that as just a mass of hard material, especially the bulrushes. Picked up the largest marine deep cycle at Costco, ran for 6-7 hours, never ran it down.

I could see where one man operation is feasible, but on this application just does not work. You cut that material and it immediately pops to the top in large quatities and gets right into your motor. Going to have to go two man operation on the old dead and dormant material. Also going to experiment with the rake as well. You can see the plants are aerobic. I think that is the word. When you cut off the stalk little air bubbles come out of it.

So far learned a lot. Next trip going to put on beta cattail head, and have a boat driver. Going to try and rig up a board to keep it straight horizontal when mounted to side of boat. Also will have a hand rake for moving dense material. These stands have never been touched. Can't get a tougher test. Saw one gigantic bullfrog in the bulrush. For now letting the material float so the wind and wave action gets it consolated in one or two places then out of the water it comes. Might burn some in pits and let some decompose on shore above waterline.

Will wait until pond fills some more and continue testing and refining techniques. I think once I get the bulk of the dead and dormant stuff cut below the surface it should be much easier and faster. As you can see from the photos I have a prepped quite a bit for that already.