Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Balance of plants in the environment Water Lilies, Bullrush

I am thinking of planting some of these in my new pond in 2 shallow ends. There seems to be disagereement on the benefits to planting your own habitat or waiting for nature to take it's course.

The hatchery that sold me the fish also sells "Fancy European Pond Lilies" and advertise them as "domesticated limited growth". To me that would indicate that they would not spread as rapidly and need as much work. Is this correct?

This pond is in a fescue pasture( no livestock) and I want to provide some additional structure for insects and fish.

Which of the rushes, knob or bull would be the easiest to plant and control? Do they overwhelm a pond like cattails?

Mark, you will lots of good advise here. The most important, IMHO, is that it all depends. A plant that is a horrible monster in one area might barely survive in another. We'll give you lots of good general opinions but you need to look at some local lakes and talk to local experts to get a better idea.

Thanks Norm. Most ponds around here are agricultural and fish are an afterthought. I have not really found one that is managed for fish and wildlife per se like mine. The aesthetics are important to me because the house I am building overlooks the pond.

I guess I answered my own question then. The lilies and rushes would definitely make it look more attractive and provide cover.

If your knob rush is the genus Eleocharis then knob rush will be easier to manage. Be aware there are 29 species of Eleocharis (spike-rush) and 28 species of the bulrush group or genus (Scirpus). Each one has slightly and sometimes dramatically different growth habits. I highly suggest you know the species before planting.

I am not sure what "Fancy European Pond Lilies" are. I am not aware of any big name US water garden companies selling water lilies as European Lilies. Again I suggest you get some specific common names of the lilies and present them here so we can look them up and provide you with some educated guidance.

Bill,

The common names for the lilies are:

red gloriosa, alskan white, yellow sunrise, indiana, pink sensation, white gladstone, yellow chromestella and bronze commanche.

they don't say what genus the rushes are but I will attempt to find out. Thanks for the reply.

Here are some pics thanks to Bill.

The lilies you list are not unique to Europe. The original parentage was from Europe mostly France. Many of the original varieties were originally produced at the Latour-Marliac Nursery in France during the late 1800's and early 1900's. Numerous US water garden nurseries now have decendents of those varieties. Quite a few new varieties have been produced here in the US starting starting around 1910. As an example the pink sensation (leaf spread 4') was produced by Peter Slocum in 1947 from a seed mutation of stock from a Marliac rhizome. The Gladstone (leaf spread 5'-8') was produced in Ohio in 1897!.
Smallest spread of the above names will be Indiana, Chromestella and Comanche. Others have medium spread except the whites which tend to have a larger spread of the domestic or cultivated lilies.
Gloriosa leaf spread (ls) 5', "best red hardy"
Y.Sunrise ls 5'-8' large flowers, does not flower as well in zones 3-5, best in zones 6-10.
Indiana ls 30", free blooming "one of best changeables",
Chromestella ls 2'-3', overall best hardy yellow
Comanche ls 4'-5' orangish changable, prone to crown rot
My references do not list Alaskan white lily; be cautious of that one.
All of my lilies that ewest posted photos of above were varieties developed in the US by Peter Slocum; last photo is the pink sensation.

Get some Genus species names for the rushes and I can advise. The thin round stems in the lily photos are one specie of spike rush Eloecharis that I mentioned above.

WOW! the wealth of information that is free on this forum is outstanding! What if any of these would work in a high nutrient pond without too much extra work.

Wow! Thanks for the great replies. I take it that these lilies will look very nice in the shallow ends and not become a nuisance.

What about willow trees for banks? Yes or no. Do they really consume that much water that I should worry about it in a pond that MAY be prone to leaking or excessive evaporation.

Would silver maples look just as good? Any tree recoomendations to plant around a 2 acre pond would be appreciated.

Willow trees do indeed use a large volume of water.

IMHO Silver Maples are very soft and trashy; they lose a LOT of branches after they have gotten large. A harder species such as Red Maple would be a better choice than Silver.

From experience, as Theo said, silver leaf maples will soon develop galls, shed limbs, and look terrible. Drummond red maple, now in our front yard, is a thing of beauty. Willows, not only use much water, but will shed limbs which are just like seeds, only much larger. The roots will also make new bushes. A real disaster around a pond unless very closely monitored. I continue fighting willows, chinese tallows(the devil's curse) and sweet gum. I wouldnt plant a tree within 20ft of a pond.

I'm going to side with Burger on this one in reference to willows. My neighbor has two large willows within 20-30' of one of my ponds and the branch/leaf debris from them is frustrating at times.

You shouldn't use trees along your pond until you know that your pond can maintain a full-pool level. I would think a golden weeping willow would look great along a pond. There will be more maintenance if you want to keep an upkept look around the pond. But I like the natural look of things, so I'm going to have willows and poplars along my pond in the future. You could always have a bamboo grove along your pond, but that would probably consume alot of water, too.

Here is a thought. Plant a couple of redbuds and dogwoods near by. Two reasons (one) so you can enjoy them while at the pond but also , (two) the theory , often repeated and true at our place, is when the redbuds are blooming the LMB males are making nests and when the dogwoods bloom the LMB are spawning. Bill Dance and Doug Hannon informed me of that years ago and it has proved true as a general indicator. Also from In-Fisherman "As bass anglers commonly recount, the bass spawn peaks as the dogwoods reach full spring bloom. ".

Trees on pond banks result in the roots permeating the banks and any core trench / liner. Roots will losen the soil core. If the tree ever dies the integrety of the liner will be compromised and infused with a connected system of tiny openings or pathways for water movement. I have seen willow roots growing out of the underwater pond bank and it looked like fine whiteish to pinkish underwater weed growth. Not a good thing to have in a pond wall. I recommend keeping all trees back from the pond edge at least 40-60 ft if you value the core trench.

Bill Cody, when you mentioned leaf spread; is that the radius from center, diameter or what. I just planted some and have never seen how large the plants get. thanks

burgerm - yes, leaf spread is the estimated diameter of the leaf pattern of each plant. Generally this refers to a properly potted mature lily plant as it grows in a water garden "lily type" pond. In an earth bottom pond setting the lily rhizome (root) can grow and spread outward from a initial basal planting. My experience is the rhizome spread rate is directly dependant on the softness and thickness of the sediments and the variety of the lily. Thick soft mucky sediments allow easier spread of the lily roots. Hybrid lilies spread very slowly in new ponds with compacted sediments. Spread will be somewhat faster in new ponds if the lilies are planted in areas with lose topsoil.

Flowers of hardy water lilies are produced on the actively growing tips of each rhizome.

Thanks for the great replies. I think I will start by planting some ornamentals as suggested. Maybe a couple of plum trees for wildlife.

Just some outstanding advice in these old classic threads. I am fighting the dreaded former pond guy planted willows on the water's edge. Just an unmitigated disaster. I'm cutting trunks my 20" bar is too short for. About the worst tree you could plant right on the shore. They end up throwing suckers everywhere, bush out with multi trunks if cut and release way too many seeds into the air that end up on embankments and a dam where you just cannot have them. Even worse, they block access to the water and even viewing when they are leafy. The roots elevate up out of the soil underwater and sometime make more trees. Going to take years to fix that mess.

I've heard willows can be worse than cattails to manage/eradicate. They also have notorious thirst - not unlike the Eastern Cottonwood that we have growing at the water's edge on my ponds. At least a Cottonwood has some merit as a tree...

Yes. I'll vouch for that. Tomorrow I go cattail eradicating and test out the new cattail cutting head for Jensen Lake mower. Just putt putt in the aluminum boat and mow. Willows, not so fun. Tons of limbs and brush to cut and burn. Then if you let them go too long, huge multi branched trunks or giant trunks. Going to backhoe smaller ones, kill larger ones in place. I have entire shorelines blocked off from access and view. It's so bad I can only take on so many at one time. My estimate is 3 - 4 years. And forget throwing the limbs in for forage cover. I had one limb float over to an embankment and start 10 new trees. They have rooting hormone everywhere but the leaves. Barely provide shade, ugly as hell. Cut them and they get mad and expand. Massive thirsty root systems. I take down everything, oaks, pine, poison oak, blackberries, you name it. Willows are the worst of the worst. I'll take some photos.

Sounds a lot like Locust trees native to NE - these aren't a pond nuisance but have up to 6" razor sharp thorns and if you cut one 100 saplings will shoot up. Taking too tight a turn on the UTV and these things could blind you easily - or worse.

My new muskrats visitors mowed the few cattails for me last year - trading a problem for a PROBLEM.

The State of Cal dam inspector says I have to cut the cattails out of the spillway to prevent blocking and elsewhere because they are prime muskrat habitat. The muskrats are embankment and dam killers. But I have none because they are not protected and most assuredly don't survive head shots. Have a few pocket gophers but they will get gas bombed and cyanided. Have to keep the pond in compliance. They should call me dirty Frog as I get all of the nobody else will do it jobs.

Considering all the legislation I see these days I thought you were going to suggest CA protected Skrats! Glad to hear that's not the case. You're right, when I saw my cattails mowed I was elated for a brief moment - until I realized my banks and dam could soon be compromised due to their tunneling nature. I do have a mink that pays visits - and skrats are on their menu. I'm willing to lose an occasional BG, FHM and GSH to mink if they can keep my pond skrat free.