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#202099 - 02/01/10 10:48 PM RES Fecundity/survival rate?
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I was asked this question, and couldn't answer it.

"If 100 RES 4"-6" are stocked in a 1 ac pond this Spring with no predators in it, and they spawn, how many will make it to next year?" It seems that a RES 6" long will have somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 ova (according to Arkansas Academy of Science Proceedings, Vol. XXXIII,1979).

What say you experts? The pond is new as of 2009, some FHM and GSH will be stocked at the same time.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#202105 - 02/01/10 11:09 PM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: esshup]
CJBS2003 Offline
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It really all depends... Spawning success if highly variable. Substrate, temperature, rain conditions, etc... GSH are big egg and fry eaters, if they are stocked as well, they'll eat a lot of the RES eggs and fry.
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#202106 - 02/01/10 11:12 PM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: CJBS2003]
esshup Offline
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Substrate is sand/gravel, but mostly sand. Ther GSH should be 3" long or so. IIRC, 5# FHM, 5# GSH in 1 ac, plus the 100 RES.

CJ, What's your WAG?
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#202117 - 02/01/10 11:55 PM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: esshup]
CJBS2003 Offline
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1000-2000 if I had to make a WAG... Gonna be a lot of hungry little fish though.
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#202123 - 02/02/10 12:09 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: CJBS2003]
esshup Offline
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All the more food for the SMB and possibly HSB. (go to sleep with their mouths open and wake up with a full belly)
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#202127 - 02/02/10 12:17 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: esshup]
CJBS2003 Offline
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If you're just going to grow out fish, I'd use GSH and FHM.
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#202131 - 02/02/10 12:32 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: CJBS2003]
esshup Offline
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Nope, not me. Not my pond. I honestly think it'll be O.K., if the RES get too thick, won't HSB chew them down? SMB are planned for stocking in Spring of 2011, along with YP. The only cover/structure in the pond is 1/2 dz. stumps/rootballs. No plants (yet).
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#202132 - 02/02/10 01:09 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: esshup]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7892
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Scott

I didn't know you were a YP, SMB, RES, HSB fan? What a cool project - we're like minded for sure.

Ever think about adding 100-200 M BG just to grow out trophies?

I think you are right on track with adding GSH - or wait, are you going to stock GSH? According to Dave Willis and Mark Cornwall articles in old issues of PB they believe GSH just might establish themselves a sustained forage base with only YP, SMB and HSB as apex predators. IMO their benefit far outweighs their penchant for nest raiding...if you need to you can always go RES collecting to supplement your population from time to time - besides it's a blast float tubing and catching RES on their beds on a nice June day.

Although I lack personal experience my hunch says you can stay ahead of the GSH with your RES spawns. IIRC Eric has stated he's never seen an overpopulation of RES in a pond...unlike BG or PS. I think you have a rock solid ultra cool project on tap.

I want to learn more - is this a new pond? Additional pond?
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#202133 - 02/02/10 01:10 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: esshup]
CJBS2003 Offline
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HSB are not big predators on sunfish. They like open was fish like GSH. But if the pond has minimal cover, they may be more efficient at preying on the RES than normal. Fortunately RES don't have high reproduction rates like BG, so it should be OK. How big will the SMB be when stocked? I'd stock them this fall over waiting until the following spring...
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#202134 - 02/02/10 01:16 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: CJBS2003]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7892
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Sorry I can't leave this thread alone: In our Western NE sandpits the RES pull off healthy spawns every year. Very strong populations despite the presence of tons of 10-12" LMB. I think you are looking good with your substrate.
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#202137 - 02/02/10 01:26 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: CJBS2003]
burgermeister Offline
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Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
 Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
HSB are not big predators on sunfish. They like open was fish like GSH. But if the pond has minimal cover, they may be more efficient at preying on the RES than normal. Fortunately RES don't have high reproduction rates like BG, so it should be OK. How big will the SMB be when stocked? I'd stock them this fall over waiting until the following spring...


true that hsb LIKE open water, but if put into a 1 acre pond, they take what is given them. My 75 hsb in 1 acre have made a decent living off BG. Yes. I have fed moderately heavy when the damn feeder wasnt jammed or something, but not enough for them to weigh at 2-3 # each in 16 months.
I see them flashing under water afer the BG when feeding smaller pellets. Then they hit the larger pellets also.
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#202138 - 02/02/10 01:44 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: burgermeister]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Loc: northern VA
No doubt, they will eat what is available and in smaller ponds particularly they'll pray on BG and other sunfish, especially when there is little cover for the sunfish to take to. I just wouldn't rely on HSB to do a good job of keeping BG in check. But as with every pond, it all depends.
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#202144 - 02/02/10 07:48 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: CJBS2003]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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I'm just doing the legwork for a fellow Pondmeister who dug 2 new 1 ac ponds <20 miles from my house in 2009. He wants to have one pond SMB/RES/YP (with forage fish as well) for swimming, and the other pond is still undecided except for RES/GHS/FH. He's planning on stocking the forage fish this year, and letting everything simmer for at least the spring/summer and maybe fall/winter depending on fish availability before stocking predators. He's not stocking real heavily on the forage fish, but they should multiply pretty well without any predators, 100 4"-6" RES in each pond, and 5# each of GSH and FH in each pond this year.

He's undecided on the stocking numbers and size to stock of YP/SMB, but since it's 6 months to a year off, hopefully more data will be published in PB Magazine in 2010 - he is a subscriber.

The primary task of the RES is vector control, as black spot is common in many of the local BOW's.

There is a windmill aerator at each pond, but he's not planning on feeding. We'll see how long that lasts after he sees the fish hitting the pellets at my place in a few weeks.

He's an absentee Pondmeister, and isn't sure if he will have 2-legged visitors when he's not at the property. During the warmer months of the year he's at the property at least 1x week, not so frequently during the winter. The soil type is similar to mine, so he will have 4'-5' water level fluctuations on a yearly basis just like I do.

He will be the apex predator, the family likes fish, so the ponds will be fished 1x/week once the fish numbers will sustain harvesting, most likely C/R the first year or two.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#202145 - 02/02/10 07:53 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: esshup]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
CJ:

I know HSB are not normally considered to be sunfish predators, but when fishing for landlocked striped bass we have done very well using 6"-7" BG, slow trolled on planer boards. Yeah, I thought the BG would be too big for them, but I was proven wrong!I think the HSB will retain some of that characteristic and feed on the smaller sunfish, especially if there are good numbers of them available for food.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#202251 - 02/02/10 08:38 PM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: esshup]
Bill Cody Offline
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Striped bass have bigger mouths compared to the same length of hybrid striped bass.
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#202288 - 02/03/10 12:30 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: Bill Cody]
CJBS2003 Offline
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With the water fluctuations, the GSH should pull off great spawns if he can keep some alive through the winter months. Have him plant the exposed areas in rye in fall. When the water rises in the spring the rye will flood be great spawning structure for the GSH. Should fatten the HSB up real nice on natural foods.

I catch a lot of my striped bass in the Chesapeake live lining small white perch which are shaped similarly to BG. Perhaps a bit less rounded, but they got the spines and their gill plates are very sharp. So they will no doubt feed on fish shaped like BG.
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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#202340 - 02/03/10 09:44 AM Re: RES Fecundity/survival rate? [Re: CJBS2003]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
 Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
With the water fluctuations, the GSH should pull off great spawns if he can keep some alive through the winter months. Have him plant the exposed areas in rye in fall. When the water rises in the spring the rye will flood be great spawning structure for the GSH. Should fatten the HSB up real nice on natural foods.


Now why didn't I think of that??? That's a great idea. I need to do that in my pond as well. Now, one question. Rye grass or the cereal grain?
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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