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Speaking of fish, when are you gonna stop foolin around and throw some BG in that basement tank, to heck with the nitrites.  Might as well cover this subject, we've just about covered everything else. Uh oh this thread is going down the tubes now. I supposed you're going to ask me if I'm still adding ammonia "products?" Seriously the nitrites don't seem to want to budge. Maybe it's the cold water?
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Brettski:
There are species of buffalo that grow in warmer climates. Look up "water buffalo". Technically the American Bison is not a buffalo. Not even close. I'm just passing on the misery as I've been corrected many times on that. 
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Cecil: Come-on, you can spare a few small bg to see how the tank is doing! Throw some in there already!!!!!! Whatcha waiting for!  Would a bison be considered a buffalo if it was native to Africa or Asia?
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Dom't know about B steaks, but my girls schmirls love B buger for Taco Meat. The stick agrees.
I see them all the time on my walks through Blue Mound State Park. The are slow moving grazer's amd it is easy to see why their numbers dwindled many moons ago.
Good morning Dave, I've checked the ships systems, and everything appears to be running normally.
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This post has to be one of the funniest yet most informative threads non pond related I have seen! I'll add some more info, for those of you who are fans of the American bison and their history: 
Last edited by CJBS2003; 01/27/10 10:30 PM. Reason: added map
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Cecil: Come-on, you can spare a few small bg to see how the tank is doing! Throw some in there already!!!!!! Whatcha waiting for! The nitrites are at least 5 mg/l. Sure death for any fish.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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This post has to be one of the funniest yet most informative threads non pond related I have seen! I'll add some more info, for those of you who are fans of the American bison and their history: \ It just sickens me to read about how they were shot for sport off of railroad cars and left to lay to rot. Looks like we came pretty close to losing them as a species.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Yes we did... No one ever thought you could kill them all! We managed to kill the most common North American bird species, the passenger pigeon. Some scientists think they numbered over 1 billion!
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The nitrites are at least 5 mg/l. Sure death for any fish.
That's a fine wine for tilapia!
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Cecil: Come-on, you can spare a few small bg to see how the tank is doing! Throw some in there already!!!!!! Whatcha waiting for! The nitrites are at least 5 mg/l. Sure death for any fish. Yep, sure death. Your Nitrites are going to take a bit longer. Cooler temps and light make it take longer to fully cycle. Can you rig up a cover for the RBC? Cheap black plastic or something to keep the light out. Also, elevated air temperature will help with an RBC. If you can cheaply direct a heater duct, that will help. One thing I tried was infra-red over a flat black shield. Raised the temp up pretty good without drying anything out. That would be too expensive to run full time, but as an experiment it went well. The beauty with your RBC or fixed film reactor is once it is working properly, it is very reliable. I did however have an instance of Nitrate poisoning with a new mini rbc. Something to keep an eye on.
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Cecil: I know that you won't see this 'till this evening, but do you want to try those 2 large aquarium heaters that I have? They are either 300 or 400 watts each.
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Cecil: I know that you won't see this 'till this evening, but do you want to try those 2 large aquarium heaters that I have? They are either 300 or 400 watts each. That is a generous offer, and Cecil can do anything he wants. But, I would advise to let it come in naturally. At 62F, with an RBC, it will work very well once it comes in. To augment to a degree that would increase daily operating costs, really is not worth it. One thing I would suggest is to come up with a cover to keep out as much light as possible.
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JKB:
Could he use the heaters to get the level where he wants it then slowly reduce the temps to what the water would be without the heaters? Would that get his system up and running any quicker?
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JKB:
Could he use the heaters to get the level where he wants it then slowly reduce the temps to what the water would be without the heaters? Would that get his system up and running any quicker? esshup: It would help make things move along quicker. I wouldn't do anything too wild, like an extra 5 degrees or so would be a benefit. The problem is not with raising temps but lowering them. The little bio-bugs Cecil is "raising" will like the 62F temps but once they go to Florida for a vacation they most likely wont want to return. I did a 20F or so temp drop once. Everything seemed fine for a day or so but it was a disaster. Maintain your PH, temp's, TDS and keep an eye on the nitrate levels. If Cecil plans on a salt regime, which would be a big plus. It is not too late to start. Just don't have the tank stocked and decide to add 4ppt salt. That's a whole new colony of bio-bugs. Hope this helps.
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Esshup,
I think I'll pass for the reasons JKB said, and the fact that I need at least 4 watts per gallon of water for a 9 degree temperature increase in the tank. That means for my 330 gallon system I would need 330 X 4 = 1320 watts to bring the water up to 71 F. and hold it there.
I'd like to eventually get a commercial size submerged heater from AES to do the job but right now money is really tight.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/28/10 06:07 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Yes we did... No one ever thought you could kill them all! We managed to kill the most common North American bird species, the passenger pigeon. Some scientists think they numbered over 1 billion! No one thinks we can have an effect on the earth's climate either. Whoops!
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Cecil: Come-on, you can spare a few small bg to see how the tank is doing! Throw some in there already!!!!!! Whatcha waiting for! The nitrites are at least 5 mg/l. Sure death for any fish. Yep, sure death. Your Nitrites are going to take a bit longer. Cooler temps and light make it take longer to fully cycle. Can you rig up a cover for the RBC? Cheap black plastic or something to keep the light out. Also, elevated air temperature will help with an RBC. If you can cheaply direct a heater duct, that will help. One thing I tried was infra-red over a flat black shield. Raised the temp up pretty good without drying anything out. That would be too expensive to run full time, but as an experiment it went well. The beauty with your RBC or fixed film reactor is once it is working properly, it is very reliable. I did however have an instance of Nitrate poisoning with a new mini rbc. Something to keep an eye on. I am planning on a cover when I transfer it over to an oblong rumbermaid container, but just like the heater money is an issue right now. However it's quite dark in that back room. I even blocked the only window --a very small one -- with cardboard so it's pretty much pitch black in there most of the time. What's interesting is there quite a biofilm layer on the RBC now. I'll be watching nitrates as I do now. Water changes should keep it under control.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Esshup,
I think I'll pass for the reasons JKB said, and the fact that I need at least 4 watts per gallon of water for a 9 degree temperature increase in the tank. That means for my 330 gallon system I would need 330 X 4 = 1320 watts to bring the water up to 71 F. and hold it there.
I'd like to eventually get a commercial size submerged heater from AES to do the job but right now money is really tight. Money well spent would be to insulate and heat the atmosphere. Water temps would only be about 2-3 degrees cooler than the ambient air temps. Everyone that thinks they can just heat water will always loose. By far, more energy wasted. You have to think of terms of saturation when it comes to temps. Keep it as even as possible. One thing you may not know is that every engineering equation, regarding raising fish, has Temperature in it. That should be a flag.
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All the literature I have seen says heating the air is less efficient than heating the water. But I see your point in that if the air is heated the tank will stay close to the air temp. I don't believe I have any vents in that area of the basement but I will look. The closest one may be at least 20 feet away although the furnace (Geothermal) is on the other side of the petitioned wall.
BTW I slowly added NaCl to the system until I got it up to 0.2 percent aka 2 ppt or 2000 ppm. I've had really good luck using salt when I haul fish and have seen a lot of literature that shows it's beneficial.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/28/10 06:37 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Cecil: Come-on, you can spare a few small bg to see how the tank is doing! Throw some in there already!!!!!! Whatcha waiting for! The nitrites are at least 5 mg/l. Sure death for any fish. Yep, sure death. Your Nitrites are going to take a bit longer. Cooler temps and light make it take longer to fully cycle. Can you rig up a cover for the RBC? Cheap black plastic or something to keep the light out. Also, elevated air temperature will help with an RBC. If you can cheaply direct a heater duct, that will help. One thing I tried was infra-red over a flat black shield. Raised the temp up pretty good without drying anything out. That would be too expensive to run full time, but as an experiment it went well. The beauty with your RBC or fixed film reactor is once it is working properly, it is very reliable. I did however have an instance of Nitrate poisoning with a new mini rbc. Something to keep an eye on. I am planning on a cover when I transfer it over to an oblong rumbermaid container, but just like the heater money is an issue right now. However it's quite dark in that back room. I even blocked the only window --a very small one -- with cardboard so it's pretty much pitch black in there most of the time. What's interesting is there quite a biofilm layer on the RBC now. I'll be watching nitrates as I do now. Water changes should keep it under control. All Good. I cant wait till you post a video with your tank stocked. But be patient. I would have also liked to see you add a salt regime when you started your bio-filter. I would ask Jim Held or Bill Cody and get their opinion, being that I am not an expert, but I have killed many fish  I want your RAS Project to be a success. You have taken on a bit more difficult rout, but it will be long term success. If I can help, let me know.
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I would have also liked to see you add a salt regime when you started your bio-filter. I would ask Jim Held or Bill Cody and get their opinion, being that I am not an expert, but I have killed many fish Me too but all the literature I have found says adding the salt should not be a problem if added slowly which I did. According to one piece, even if the added salt stresses the bacteria they should adapt fairly quickly.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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I would have also liked to see you add a salt regime when you started your bio-filter. I would ask Jim Held or Bill Cody and get their opinion, being that I am not an expert, but I have killed many fish Me too but all the literature I have found says adding the salt should not be a problem if added slowly which I did. According to one piece, even if the added salt stresses the bacteria they should adapt fairly quickly. I'ts just a time frame thing. Don't add it all at once. You can put too much in at one time and kill most of your bacteria. Some will survive, but the rebound time, once stocked, won't be pretty. Just tossing up a bit of caution.
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I would have also liked to see you add a salt regime when you started your bio-filter. I would ask Jim Held or Bill Cody and get their opinion, being that I am not an expert, but I have killed many fish Me too but all the literature I have found says adding the salt should not be a problem if added slowly which I did. According to one piece, even if the added salt stresses the bacteria they should adapt fairly quickly. I'ts just a time frame thing. Don't add it all at once. You can put too much in at one time and kill most of your bacteria. Some will survive, but the rebound time, once stocked, won't be pretty. Just tossing up a bit of caution. Thanks. Hopefully adding it over several days kept me safe.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Cecil, I have more than enough heaters. One stock tank heater (you'd have to bypass the internal thermostat) is 1200 or 1500 watts by itself, then the other 2 aquarium heaters.... But, if dropping the temps will cause more problems than it's worth, then using ambient temp is probably the best.
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Thanks Scot. I really appreciate the offer.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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