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#194896 - 12/09/09 06:50 PM Northern CA Fish Hatcheries...
Duckdude Offline
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Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 27
Loc: East Biggs
Folks,
This is an area specific question, but I'm hoping that someone will be able to help me.

I'm the proud owner/builder of a new pond in the Northern Sacramento Valley of CA. Being a new pond owner, I'm trying to get up to speed on the availability of LMB, RES, BG, CC, etc hatcheries in my area and/or the ability to mail order from outside the state. I know that CA has some stringent stocking laws and a recent law suit has apparently has made things tougher on hatcheries and pond owners alike. From what I've read previously on the DFG website, I don't need a stocking permit for the afore mentioned species in my particular county (Butte), so my question is this. Are there hatcheries in my area that I can get LMB (specifically F1's), RES, BG and CC? And will I have to register with the state due to the recent lawsuit? And finally, If I can't get these species close to home, will people ship fish to CA from other parts of the country?

I don't have anything to hide, but at the same time, I don't like the idea of submitting to random inspections by the state. Kind of like gun registry....once you register, then they know where to find you.

Thanks for the input.
DD
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#194897 - 12/09/09 07:02 PM Re: Northern CA Fish Hatcheries... [Re: Duckdude]
Yolk Sac Offline

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Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1255
Loc: Nashville
Welcome to the forum, Dude.

[I can't believe I actually got to call someone "Dude". Hey Sunil, am I cool or what?]

Seriously, welcome-we've got some great members from California, who can no doubt shed some light on your questions, as they've done a fair bit of stocking themselves. At least one is off line for a bit, so be patient...



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#194901 - 12/09/09 08:01 PM Re: Northern CA Fish Hatcheries... [Re: Duckdude]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
 Originally Posted By: Duckdude
Folks,
This is an area specific question, but I'm hoping that someone will be able to help me.

I'm the proud owner/builder of a new pond in the Northern Sacramento Valley of CA. Being a new pond owner, I'm trying to get up to speed on the availability of LMB, RES, BG, CC, etc hatcheries in my area and/or the ability to mail order from outside the state. I know that CA has some stringent stocking laws and a recent law suit has apparently has made things tougher on hatcheries and pond owners alike. From what I've read previously on the DFG website, I don't need a stocking permit for the afore mentioned species in my particular county (Butte), so my question is this. Are there hatcheries in my area that I can get LMB (specifically F1's), RES, BG and CC? And will I have to register with the state due to the recent lawsuit? And finally, If I can't get these species close to home, will people ship fish to CA from other parts of the country?

I don't have anything to hide, but at the same time, I don't like the idea of submitting to random inspections by the state. Kind of like gun registry....once you register, then they know where to find you.

Thanks for the input.
DD


I'm not from California but your DFG should have a list of private hatcheries and locations, whether it is on line, or you have to request it.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (12/10/09 10:56 PM)
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#194905 - 12/09/09 08:24 PM Re: Northern CA Fish Hatcheries... [Re: Cecil Baird1]
WaterWizard Offline
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Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 227
Loc: San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
I've tried to get fish from a guy in Sacramento. I won't share his name because I've called him about 7 times and he's never returned my calls. Maybe you should make friends with your neighbors that have ponds ;\)
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#194909 - 12/09/09 08:52 PM northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: WaterWizard]
adirondack pond Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
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I know where he can get some GSF.


Here's some info I found.
http://www.proaqua.com/lake-pond-stocking
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#194914 - 12/09/09 09:08 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: adirondack pond]
Walt Foreman Offline
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Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 743
Loc: Columbia, TN
I personally would say skip the proaqua company - their prices on BG and RES are nothing short of outrageous, and especially considering they don't even sell coppernose bluegill, you can do better than that. I just checked to make sure, and Suttle Fish Farms out of MS ships fish; they only ship smaller sizes so you'd probably have to go with fingerlings, but two major advantages to them for you would be 1) their prices are a fraction of proaqua and 2) they sell Florida and F-1 bass, as well as coppernose bluegill, all three of which grow to monstrous sizes in your state and which you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to have, IMHO:

http://www.suttlefish.com/

They also mention that they do live delivery to anywhere in the U.S. for larger orders. Unless you have a large pond and don't mind spending a small fortune, that might not be an option; but if you've got plenty of dough and need several fish, it sounds from their website like they'd truck them right to you.

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#194915 - 12/09/09 09:26 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Walt Foreman]
ewest Offline
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#194936 - 12/09/09 11:30 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: ewest]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I don't know if any of the southern species will work, it gets pretty chilly in that area.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#194939 - 12/09/09 11:41 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Walt Foreman]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
 Originally Posted By: Walt Foreman
I personally would say skip the proaqua company - their prices on BG and RES are nothing short of outrageous, and especially considering they don't even sell coppernose bluegill, you can do better than that. I just checked to make sure, and Suttle Fish Farms out of MS ships fish; they only ship smaller sizes so you'd probably have to go with fingerlings, but two major advantages to them for you would be 1) their prices are a fraction of proaqua and 2) they sell Florida and F-1 bass, as well as coppernose bluegill, all three of which grow to monstrous sizes in your state and which you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to have, IMHO:

http://www.suttlefish.com/

They also mention that they do live delivery to anywhere in the U.S. for larger orders. Unless you have a large pond and don't mind spending a small fortune, that might not be an option; but if you've got plenty of dough and need several fish, it sounds from their website like they'd truck them right to you.


I think I'd find something local. Overnight shipping from those places would be a deal killer for me if I lived in California. I ship frozen fish ground out there from Indiana and it's a killer. JMO of course.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (12/09/09 11:42 PM)
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#194946 - 12/10/09 01:42 AM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Cecil Baird1]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 10457
Loc: northern VA
Overnight shipping is costly... It made my lake chubsuckers go from $1 a piece to $4.25 a piece!
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#194957 - 12/10/09 06:07 AM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: CJBS2003]
Rainman Offline
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Registered: 06/06/07
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Loc: St Louis, MO area
I regularly ship Tilapia to Cali. FWIW, I air freight same-=day deliveries up to 100 pounds per container to LAX and Burbank for $250-$350 per 100#. With Bass and the sunfish, 50 pounds per container would be close to the max due to much higher oxygen demands. The CC couldn't be over 4 inches or the spines would pop the bags, but shippable weights are close to 100 pounds per container. All my shipments have been inspected and approved by the California Dept. of Agriculture.


Edited by Rainman (12/10/09 06:10 AM)
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#195157 - 12/11/09 02:11 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Rainman]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
Duckdude, if you type into a google search the phrase "2009 REGISTERED AQUACULTURISTS" you will get an adobe report that lists all of the registered fish suppliers by county. I have found that these suppliers will know what regulations will apply to you.

DIED and I are in El Dorado county. We used "Freshwater Fish Company" in Elk Grove, very nice guy. His business is currently for sale though. \:\(
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#195806 - 12/18/09 11:33 AM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: jeffhasapond]
Duckdude Offline
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 27
Loc: East Biggs
Thanks guys for the help.
DD
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"I'd never be a member in a club that would have a guy like me as a member"....Groucho Marx

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#195807 - 12/18/09 11:35 AM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Duckdude]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
No problemo DD. Any update on your pond?
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~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#196137 - 12/20/09 09:42 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: jeffhasapond]
Duckdude Offline
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 27
Loc: East Biggs
JHAP,
No update other than, I'm working on the engineering of the solar pumping plant that I'll be installing and the pond is slowly beginning to fill from the recent rains that we've had here.

The pond is a 1.25 acres and averages 6 feet deep with a few spots 10-12' or so. I've put in around 35 standing dead timbers, stumps and logs (lots of work with a post hole digger!) as well as two truck and trailer loads of boulders and river rock. I also added a couple of manzanita bushes and quite a bit of gravel for spawning beds etc.

I transplanted somewhere around 15 hard stem bulrush clumps (tules) also. They're pretty small so I'll likely fertilize them to get them going.

All in all I tried to put in as many different types of structure (channels, submerged humps, drop offs, ridges, verticle banks, etc)that I could fit into this size pond.

It's always been my dream to build my own pond in my backyard and I'm totally stoked to see it finally come to fruition.

I can't wait to sit in the back yard with a margarita and watch my girls (6 yrs, 4 yrs and 10 mons)catch fish after fish!

Bring on the rain!!!
DD
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"I'd never be a member in a club that would have a guy like me as a member"....Groucho Marx

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#200841 - 01/26/10 01:43 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Duckdude]
Duckdude Offline
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 27
Loc: East Biggs
First off. Thanks to everyone for the good suggestions. Well my rain dance seems to have worked wonders! If I was smart I'd really start wishing to win the state lottery!

The pond has gone from a trickle of water to nearly full in a week and a half.

I've talked to many of the local aquaculturists (some of which have been mentioned here) and have had mixed responses. Most places are pretty spendy compared to fish from other states ($3/fish for a 2"-4" LMB,BG and RES). I need to take a look at the cost of out of state shipping to see if it's a better deal.

Also, the local selection is mostly limited to northern LMB, CC and BG.

One of the most expensive places says that they do have Florida largemouths (which I'd like to have) and Florida bluegills which they claim are way better than the other strain of bluegills. I'm not sure about this and the information that I've gathered so far doesn't confirm this.

Maybe someone else can shed some light on these?

Of course the locals also recommend a much higher stocking rate than I've seen mentioned here, which drives the cost up even more.

So I guess I'm still shopping around.
DD
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#200859 - 01/26/10 03:14 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Duckdude]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
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Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 3261
Loc: el dorado ca
hi duckdude,
did you get the aquaculturalist list ok? it seems they dont keep it updated very well as many places i called back in 2006 either didnt return calls or were out of business. the freshwater fish co that jhap and i used had northern lmb, res, bg, and spotted lmb, in addition to bunch of other things you probably dont want in the pond, but i'm not sure he's still in business.

if you end up needing fish shipped to you, i would pm todd overton, he will probably make as good a deal as you could get.

the florida strain bg are probably coppernose (cnbg) and they are extremely impressive when grown in good conditions.

how will you keep yer pond full over the summer?
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#200860 - 01/26/10 03:16 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
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Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 3261
Loc: el dorado ca
also, i apologize if i didnt see this earlier, but what are yer goals for the pond? depending on what they are, you wont need to stock high numbers of things to develop an awesome fishing hole in a year or two.
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#200866 - 01/26/10 03:25 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
Walt Foreman Offline
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Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 743
Loc: Columbia, TN
Duckdude, you're probably too far north for Fla. LMB and CNBG to thrive; sorry that I missed your specific area of the state when I made my previous post. Those two strains do fantastic in southern CA and grow to monstrous sizes, but that's several hours south of you - completely my mistake, I just didn't take the time to notice what part of the state you're in.

Northern-strain LMB and bluegill would likely do better in your region.

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#200869 - 01/26/10 03:36 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Walt Foreman]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
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Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 3261
Loc: el dorado ca
if biggs is where i think it is (up above yuba city) florida lmb and cnbg should do just fine. there is a thermal belt along the east side of the central valley (i call it the toehills) where all types of citrus is grown. it rarely freezes, and when it does it doesnt last long. its probably very rare that a pond would even get ice around the edges let alone freeze over but duckdude could speak to this better than i.
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#200873 - 01/26/10 03:39 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
Walt Foreman Offline
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Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 743
Loc: Columbia, TN
In that case, I'd say go for it! Coppernose have been caught out of multiple CA lakes well over three pounds, within the past fifteen years, including some in the past couple years; and of course several of the biggest LMB of all time, all of them Fla.'s, have come from the state in the past twenty or so years.

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#200879 - 01/26/10 04:09 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Walt Foreman]
The Pond Frog Offline
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Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 914
Loc: NorCal
There are a couple of hatcheries where I am at in Nor Cal. Problem is they are not very user friendly, and barely advertise. Problem #2, they do not have your desired species. They most have baitfish, sturgeon, trout and catfish. I think most of the better ones were regulated to death and either sold, folded or just left for greener pastures, no pun intended. I have Fla strain exclusively in one of my ponds. But without dna testing that could mean anything as even FLA LMB have some mixed genes these days. I bet smallies would thrive there. I have the same exact problems, the fish cost more to ship than the fish themselves. I might be able to help you, in fact I know I can. Where do you want to start?


Edited by The Pond Frog (01/26/10 04:10 PM)

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#200901 - 01/26/10 06:18 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: The Pond Frog]
Duckdude Offline
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 27
Loc: East Biggs
Sorry guys. I was just sure that everyone knew exactly where Biggs is ;\)

I'm located in the Sacramento Valley, about an hour north of Sacramento. The elevation here is about 90 feet above sea level and we seldom drop below freezing.

I have talked to the guy from Freshwater Fish Co. in Elk Grove (I think I interrupted his vacation in Hawaii). Understandably he was very short on the phone, but it sounded like he was still in business, but only had northern strain LMB, RES and was vague about his BG. When I asked about Florida LMB and his subspecies of BG he got a little defensive.

Anyway, I'll check with Overton and see what they can do.
Thanks

PS. I agree with Pond Frogs assessment of Norcal fish hatcheries. Customer service seems a little lacking here.



Edited by Duckdude (01/26/10 06:27 PM)
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#200905 - 01/26/10 06:25 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Duckdude]
Duckdude Offline
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 27
Loc: East Biggs
Oh yeah, as for the goals of the pond. I'm probably looking for as good as a trophy bass fishery as I can get out of a pond of my size. I'd like to have enough BG and RES to keep my kids happy and to feed my bass. Monster BG are not the goal, but would be welcome.

The CC and maybe a few winter time rainbows would be more of a put and take type of thing.
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"I'd never be a member in a club that would have a guy like me as a member"....Groucho Marx

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#200907 - 01/26/10 06:35 PM Re: northern ca. fish hatcheries [Re: Duckdude]
Walt Foreman Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 743
Loc: Columbia, TN
You should be able to grow very large bluegill even with focusing on the bass; something you might consider would be stocking a couple tiger muskie to keep the small bass thinned along with the smaller bluegill (recommended in a recent PB article). Feeding the bluegill with an automatic feeder will make a big difference, both for them providing the bass with more forage and growing larger themselves.

I would suggest skipping catfish if you think you might use a feeder, as they'll hog most of the food and physically knock the bluegill out of the way when they (CC) get larger so the bluegill don't get much of it.

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