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#19845 - 07/26/02 04:13 PM I'M SHOCKED
jawbone Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 44
Loc: Michigan
Hello, I know most of you are'nt for shocking your pond yourself, but if a guy was too shock it with a 110 or 220 generater by throwing a metal rod or something in the water would that work? By work I mean not kill the fish and give me a good idea of what I have for fish in my pond. See I am concerned that I am not getting a good picture of what I've got because the last few years I have caught less BIG bass and I am seeing more little fish(bass& bluegill). However I am catching nice 8+ inch bluegill and it is very hard to catch many bass at all.
I am also concerned that people have trespassed on to my pond and caught them but I am not sure. I am new to this pond management but I am looking forward to getting started and I have started to read about it also. It sounds like a lot of fun work with great rewards.
Thank you for your reply. \:\)

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#19846 - 07/27/02 10:56 AM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Bill Morris Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 103
Loc: North Zulch, Texas
Jawbone, it may be that your larger bass are well fed at this point. Sounds like they have plenty of food.

Bill
_________________________
Bill

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#19847 - 07/27/02 01:25 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
jawbone Offline
Member

Registered: 07/10/02
Posts: 44
Loc: Michigan
Thats just it, how will I ever know how many good fish I have if they wont bite? Just last night I caught 1 bass 16.5" 2lbs 12oz and 1 that was 13" and that was all that we caught except for the blugills. 8 that were 6" or less and 8 that were greater than 6" with the biggest that was 8.75 inches long.

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#19848 - 07/30/02 09:34 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
TROLL Offline
Member

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 31
Loc: CENTRAL IL.
JAWBONE

SOME TIME BACK , THERE WAS A ARTICLE POSTED ABOUT FISH SHOCKERS THAT WORKED OFF A TWELVE VOLT BATTERY. THE COMPANY WAS FROM OUT EAST.I CAN 'T FIND THE PHONE NUMBER,BUT MAYBE THE GUY WILL READ THIS AND LET US KNOW THE COMPANY NAME AND PHONE NUMBER.

TROLL

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#19849 - 10/06/02 10:13 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Paul Graham Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 24
Loc: Central & Southern Iowa
First, there's a company I found that sells plans to build a shocker yourself using a 12 volt car battery or will sell you the assembled thing yourself. I don't know anything else about them so I'm not personally recommending them (yet). The address is http://www.amazing1.com/misc.htm

Second I have a related question: what are the chances of killing some of the fish? I noticed they have both a standard and a high-powered version. Anyone know why I might want a high-powered one? One uncle of mine is worried that the smaller shocker won't stun the bigger fish, but the bigger shocker might kill the smaller fish. Anyone know anything more about this?

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#19850 - 10/07/02 12:15 AM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Paul,

I have the plans of the company mentioned and it's Information Unlimited P.O. Box 716 Amherst, NH 03031 (603) 673-4730. However I was not that impressed.

What bothered me about the plans is there is no voltage regulation and it is said that it may kill the fish. I am raising fish for a niche market and wouldn't want to kill any of my fish or damage them permamently with something that does not allow me to regulate the voltage.

Actually bigger fish are more susceptable to the shock than smaller ones.

There is a company out west that makes all the equipment needed for shocking fish, but they're not cheap. However the quality looks very good. It's Smith-Root, Inc. 14014 NE Salmon Creek Avenue, Vancover, WA 98686 Phone (360) 573-0202 Fax: (360) 573-2064 Email: info@smith-root.com and a website at www.smith-root.com



According to Smith-Root for a typical boat setup you will need an engine and generator (you could rent this), a control box, a junction box, a safety ground, a foot switch (to cut power if someone fell overboard or power needs to be stopped immediately,and a couple of anodes.

For a typical shore hook-up with anode pole and control box, it's the same except for the addition of a pulsator, a cathode and a anode pole.

Prices vary depending on the size of the units needed related to the conductivity of the water. Their low end "combo model 1.5 KVA" which consists of a control box, 15 ft. anode cable with foot switch, 15 ft. cathode cable and instruction manual runs a little over $3000.00. This does not include the arrays and booms.

I'm going to get one in the future but I need to pay off some debts first.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#19851 - 10/07/02 04:25 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Fishman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Waco, TX
For anyone that is thinking about building and using their own electrofishing setup, let me offer some advice: Please be careful! Most of the homebuilt systems do not have the safeguards of the professional systems (like Smith-Root). If you're going to spring for a Smith-Root unit, it's my opinion that you should be one of the following:

1)be a graduate of a University with an advanced degree in fish management and/or:

2)be someone who has many years of experience sampling fish populations with an electrofisher so that you can interpret the results and/or:

3)be someone who has lots of money and don't care how much the next toy costs.

As someone who has built or been involved in building a few electrofishing boats, I can tell you that it is more difficult and time-consuming than you might think, even if you buy a commercial unit.

It would be far better (again my opinion) to pay someone to electrofish your pond and develop a long-term management plan that is tailored to your wants and desires. There are those on this site who would say that fish management isn't rocket science, but it certainly isn't easy to do it right. Most professional fisheries biologists that I know have a bachelor's degree as well as a master's degree in their field. While this isn't a requirement for managing fish, it sure helps.

I hope don't offend anyone, but it does seem to me that quality advice is in short supply on this site. It seems to have gotten a lot worse in recent months. A few posters (you know who you are) have a great deal of insight and their contributions are valuable. Many others post solutions or ideas that are potentially harmful to the fish population or, as in this case, to the pondowners themselves. For a site that advertises "Ask the Boss", the Boss sure is absent a lot.

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#19852 - 10/07/02 08:09 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Greg Grimes Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 3973
Loc: Ball Ground, GA
Ditto what fishman said.
_________________________
Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com

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#19853 - 10/07/02 09:38 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
tim k Offline
Member

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 246
Loc: lampasas texas
Fishman - there was really no need for your post blasting this site and some of its participants. It has done just fine since inception and I for one have received invaluable information from many of the post found here and the result is a healthy, balanced, well managed pond. A board is for dialogue exchange between adults - there are many ways to "skin a cat" and this includes pond management. Pond Boss magazine, books, and this site are the best tools available for pond management - I have used them all for 3 years with great results.

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#19854 - 10/07/02 11:29 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Pottsy Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/21/02
Posts: 494
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Although I wouldn't recommend that anyone, and this means 'professional' pond managers, as well as novices, combine electricity and water in any regards without proper knowledge and due-diligence, I think this is where I draw the line of agreance with Fishmans post and Greg's 'ditto'. Perhaps I am wrong but I am under the impression that PondBoss and in particular this website intend to bring both professional AND novice pond managers together to exchange questions, ideas, and solutions. If everyone was a so-called all knowing professional there wouldn't be a need for this site or magazine now would there?
Oh, and in case there is some confusion, a degree in biology or fisheries management does not make one an electrician nor electrical engineer which if you really get down to it, is what anyone building or using electronic equipment of this nature truly should be for utmost safety.
--I just wanted to add, above all else have fun, enjoy what we all love whether you are doing so as a living or as a hobby, and "save the drama for your mamma" to coin a phrase.
_________________________
Owner/Builder of Ottawa Canada's first official off-grid home.

http://www.mygamepictures.com - Hosting your outdoor adventure, fishing, hunting and sports related pictures!

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#19855 - 10/08/02 12:12 AM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Just so you know, I do have a degree in fisheries science, and have aided in electrofishing on many occasions as an intern biologist aid and as an outdoor columist.

I am well aware of the dangers. I'm attempting to sell trophy fish of several feed trained species, and although fun, angling does not allow for complete harvest even in small ponds. Therefore I am considering the electroshocking option and not as a toy.I would be glad to hire someone, but as far as I can tell there are none within 300 miles.

You can say what you want about this site, but at least there are regular contributors vs. The AquaNic site that is perused by academics that can't find the time to help others or offer advice. One PHD down the road from me is so full of himself and selfish it's laughable.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#19856 - 10/08/02 10:02 AM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Dave Davidson Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 1892
Loc: Hurst & Bowie Texas
I agree with Pottsy. While I wish Fishman and Greg Grimes would contribute more often, I really enjoy and appreciate the interchange with other pond owners. In a past E-mail to Bob Lusk I said that I thought this was a better format than the old site where he alone answered every question. As for bad advice, I've gotten that from professionals in every profession.

I do have to agree on getting a pro to electrofish a pond. I've tried it twice and it worked out about as well as the time I tried to ride a unicycle.

Dave

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#19857 - 10/08/02 10:35 AM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Fishman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Waco, TX
Now see, there I went and offended some people, which was not my intent at all. \:\( For that I apologize.

To restate my point a little better, I hope :rolleyes: , it would be nice if the site was moderated a little better. I realize that Bob and Mark have to make a living and that comes first. But this site does advertise "Ask the Boss" and "Get Q&A with top biologists". I sure don't know everything . . . that's one of the reasons I come to this site. I want to learn what has worked for other people and share what has worked for me. I would love it if a few more seasoned professionals joined the ranks as regular posters. They are the folks that have worked on a multitude of different lakes, and can say whether or not an idea will work with some degree of certainty.

I enjoy the ideas and stories posted by pondowners a great deal. However, short-term success on a single pond does not make a neat idea a good idea. It would be nice if someone with more experience would weigh in more often as to whether a proposed idea has merit.

To add further to my constructive criticism of this site, perhaps the discussion board location should be more clearly marked. "Ask the Boss" is not very descriptive and many might think it is an e-mail link. Put the discussion out there so everyone can find it! The more people that contribute, the better. \:\)

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#19858 - 10/08/02 11:59 AM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Bill Duggan Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 625
Loc: Flatrock, Ga.
Quit while your behind Fishman, your not helping yourself with us regular folks who thought we were "Pond Bosses".

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#19859 - 10/08/02 08:04 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Greg Grimes Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 05/03/02
Posts: 3973
Loc: Ball Ground, GA
I guess I meant to "ditto" the part about hiring a pro for electrofishing instead of the do it yourself approach. I just know I spend about 2 yrs. getting info before I built my boat. I got the basics from Smith-Root and built the rest.

One the other subject...I for one am super busy and go weeks without checking this site. Then I get hooked on a subject I like and enjoy posting and reading comments. I try to help when I can and get advice when I can, and love this site, keep up the good work.

ALso how do you add a picture? Shocked a 13.5 inch 2.2 lb. redear (shellcracker) that I thought some would like to see.
_________________________
Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com

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#19860 - 10/08/02 08:39 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Bill Morris Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/27/02
Posts: 103
Loc: North Zulch, Texas
Greg, I looked back and found this post on adding pictures from John Monroe. It works, I've done it. I'd like to see that fish.

BMorris
John Monroe
Lunker
Member # 155

Member Rated:
posted September 01, 2002 07:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry I didn't get this posted sooner but I couldn't find this area. PictureStage .com

I will be glad to help you post pictures on the web. I'm no great whiz at this so if you need more information just let me know. I use a free host that you uplink (send) your pictures to from your files of pictures you have in your computer. PictureStage.com

Just click on the blue link and it will take you to it. You sign up with them and then you can start picture albums of different kinds. Like Family, Boats, Ponds or what ever you want. It will take a little playing around with it to get use to. But once you have your pictures in an album and you want to put it on a bulletin board, CLICK on the picture to enlarge it. Then to the left of the picture you will see several things you can do. At the bottom you will see LINK TO AN AUCTION--CLICK on that and the http code for your picture will come up in a box. Then you will see HIGH LIGHT THE TEXT--click on that and the text box will turn blue. Another way to highlight anything is to hold down your left mouse button and drag it across anything you want to highlight and it will turn BLUE. Next is my own way of capturing a blue highlighted area. I think it is called Copy & Paste. It is one of the most useful things you can use on your computer. This is what I do while the area is highlighted blue. ( press the computers keys together--Ctri+C and this will capture the blue highlighted area. Now, in this case go to Pond Boss bulletin board, Click on post reply. You will then see below the bottom of you reply screen several buttons to click on. Click on the one that says IMAGE. A screen will come up that starts with http. Delete this, because your picture address will already have a http and two will not let the picture work. Now make sure you mouse marker is flashing where you deleted the http (now press the two keys at the same time --Ctri+V and you picture address will appear on your reply screen. Just ignore it and write in your message as you usually do. Then hit Post Message and everything should appear including your picture. This isn't as bad as it may sound and just takes some getting use to.
John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 37 | From: East Central Indiana | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged
_________________________
Bill

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#19861 - 10/09/02 11:04 AM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Pottsy Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/21/02
Posts: 494
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
'Ditto' On seeing that fish. ;\)
_________________________
Owner/Builder of Ottawa Canada's first official off-grid home.

http://www.mygamepictures.com - Hosting your outdoor adventure, fishing, hunting and sports related pictures!

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#19862 - 10/09/02 09:48 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12412
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Posting Pics & Search Instructions

Greg there was a verry useful and detailed post several days ago about how to add a picture to your post BUT I cannot find the post again to find out how to do it. I think Pottsy added it. I cannot figure how how to work the search feature so it finds specific words or authors. Computer novice. Who ever finds the instructions how to post a picture w/ a post For Gods Sake GIVE IT its own Topic heading somewhere so all others in the future can find and use it. Don't bury it & the instructions under another topic heading like under this topic; I'm Shocked. Duh! It is two posts up I will work on transfering it to its own topic.

Comment: The site is called Pond Boss; not Pond Experts or Professsionals. Not All bosses are experts; my wife included!

Thanks BC
_________________________
Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management

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#19863 - 10/15/02 03:39 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Bob Lusk Offline
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker

Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 3100
Loc: Whitesboro, Texas
My turn.
This is one of the best exchanges I have seen today.
Pond Boss appreciates each of you, and your thoughts. That's what makes this site the best of its kind.
When I read Fishman's post, the hair on my neck stood up, and my face flushed red. Then all that pride subsided and common sense began its humble pinch.
He's right.
The pros need to chime in, more often.
Fishman, from reading your thoughts, you sound like someone with substantial knowledge. Keep tossing you thoughts into the mix. You're helpful.
This site is designed for pros to chime in, to help others. When any of us see an idea with consequences, add your thoughts.
Originally, this site was developed with the hope that 20-30 pros would offer advice to hundreds of readers.
The problem? The pros make a living during the growing season. Personally, I have never been busier than this year.
In the beginning, I was the only one to respond. Now we have 10-15 others. Pond Boss likes that. And, with 375-300 unique users per day, reader's deserve it.
Now that the "season" is slowing down, I'll be at the site more often.
For the fellow who wants to build a shocker, I'll be more direct than the other people. Forget it. Too dangerous, then too much data to analyze. Even if you built one that worked safely, you probably don't have enough experience to figure out what you have, or what to do. Hire a professional. That will be money well spent.
_________________________
Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...

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#19864 - 10/16/02 12:50 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Fishman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Waco, TX
Bob,

I'm glad to see that you're back on the site and thanks for the thoughtful post. After reviewing my previous messages I decided that I may have come on a little too strong. My intent was not to put down, belittle, or in any way stifle the interaction on this site. It is both useful and entertaining. I appreciate the invitation to stay and plan to do just that.

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#19865 - 10/16/02 01:09 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Bill Duggan Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 625
Loc: Flatrock, Ga.
Fishman, after our posts the other day I went back and reviewed all of your posts on this board. All have been informative and helpful. Sorry for my comment on this thread and thanks for your past and future help!

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#19866 - 10/16/02 08:31 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Fishman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Waco, TX
Bill,

Thanks for being a gentleman. I will try and do better in the future.

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#19867 - 10/17/02 01:50 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Jason Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/17/02
Posts: 5
Loc: Ohio
Although the principles behind electrofishing appear quite simple, there are many things to consider when trying to assess a fish population. Obviously, safety is the primary concern. Being a biologist and performing surverys on many ponds and lakes, it can become very easy to forget oneself and end up electrocuted; especially when lunkers start popping up. However, it is also critical to realize that shocking is only effective at capturing some species of fish. For instance, catfish and bullheads don't shock up very well at all. On the other hand sunfish and largemouth shock up quite well. Another factor is that larger fish will shock up much better than smaller fish. The biases go on and on. Essentially, my point is that even with a shock boat, there are many other considerations that must be made to actually get an idea of what's going on in your pond. Don't get me wrong, electrofishing is a great tool, but only one of several tools required to understand a fish population. A few other tools include: seining, harvest records, and stocking records. Although shocking fish can be pretty exciting, your money would probably be better spent hiring someone to compile all of the data.

Cecil, if you need some electrofishing services performed I'm right around the corner in Bowling Green, Ohio. Inspired by Nature, Inc. (info@ibnature.com)offers pond and lake management, fish stocking, and performs fish surveys.

Jason Roehrig

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#19868 - 10/17/02 11:09 PM Re: I'M SHOCKED
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12412
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Jason: You wound my spring so I will also expound.
When assessing a fish community let's include things like population analyses across year classes & length frequency distributions, proportional stock density, growth rates thru scale analyses and back calculations, condition factors, forage base and diversity overall biomass estimates and maybe a randon external and internal parasite scan. We might even do an assessment of the pond's overall food base or chain by sampling the invertebrate and vertebrate prey. Now we're sampling fish! As you well know, there is a lot that makes up a pond ecosystem. AS you mentioned it's important to compile the data but I think & you will agree it's even more important and valuable to have that data analyzed and reported so it means something, not compile it. (I know by compile you also meant report). It's not just shock'em up, okay looks healthy and toss it back. Although it can be done, but what is really gained by this?

If they are there, you should, if really good, get them to bite. Maybe the fish are smarter than the fisherman!
I still say that if you are a pondowner and are not knowledgable enough to adequately sample your fish community by hook and line fishing (various baits live and artif.) and maybe several minnow traps, be able to record the data and then have the ability to interpret the results then you as a private pondowner probably have no business electrofishing. But you can and should also just fish for fun or sport no problem with that. Electrofishing is just a FAST & glorious way for someone to sample a fish community and as you mentioned it provides a biased sample. Granted electrofishing can also be for special reasons or a way of just reducing fish numbers, but selective fishing methods can also harvest targeted fish although just not as fast as electrofishing which is why professionals use it. Time is money. I also realize some species of fish do not bite well on hook and line and special methods are sometimes needed but these cases are pretty rare for the average pond owner.

A little strong here but: If a pond owner wants to do-it-yourself & know all about his fish community, then he needs to know, when fishing, what data to record and how to intrepret that data for answers, not electrocute his fish. Here is where Pond Boss magazine steps up to the plate and uses articles to teach pond owners how to grow and evaluate their fishery based on the fish that are caught. Problem is most people don't take the time to record their catch or learn how to catch smart fish; too busy having fun jerking jaws. You can't get this detailed info on a forum format but the PBoss magazine has done some of this and needs to do it more frequently with articles such as:
Nov-Dec97-Autumn Inventory, Infertile Waters Boney Fish; May-Jun98-Graph Used to Monitor Bass; Jul-Aug00-The Cure For Skinny Bass, dispelling the Myths, Sizes of Forage That a Bass Can Swallow; May-Jun02-Selective Harvest&Bag Limits.

For others who do not have time to fish and record data, or don't want to learn how to analyse fish data, then that's why there are learned, trained professionals to help you get the job done. I you don't want to spend the money for someones training then spend the time to learn yourself..

Not everyone wants to be a biologist at his pond but the owner/manager should have some working knowledge about evaluating and maintaining the fishery so the 'fish for fun ones' can have more fun. Time to climb down from the soap box before someone throws a dead fish at me.
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America's Journal of Pond Management

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