Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Mr. Saugeye

Okay guys - question for the experts regarding the Saugeye. Saugeye is a sterile WE/Sauger hybrid that combines benefits of both species. Retains WE ability for growth [they can exceed 10 lbs IIRC] but are tolerant of both warmer and more turbid waters ala Sauger.

Seems there could be a niche fileed by them in midwestern and southern ponds in my inexperienced estimation. I know of several E NE reservoirs that have been successful with SE stockings and they are all warm and on the turbid side. What are your impressions?

The main problem I see is availability via hatcheries - I've never seen them advertised. Bill - David - Eric....bet you have some light to shed here. I'm interested in them and would be willing to experiment in the main pond with your blessings...

They're not sterile although I doubt you'd have to worry about reproduction in a pond. Dr. Willis and Bill Cody had some good responses regarding the saugeye in the the below thread on them about walleye hybrids which are the same thing.

Thanks Cecil - that clarifies a bunch for me...let me post this on their thread...my bad - wasn't sure what the Walleye hybrid was.

Saugeye will do well in shallow, muddy water, as evidenced in Buckeye Lake (Ohio) with an average depth of about 6 feet and four million waterskiers to stir up the mud.

As Cecil mentioned the saugeye is not sterile. A couple research studies found them to reproduce. Thus the states try to keep them out of rivers with walleye so the genetics have reduced chances of mixing. Dilution of the pure strain walleye stocks/genetics is not a good thing. I have saugeye in my pond and I do no prefer them to walleye. IMO saugeye are okay but I would not go out of my way to get them if walleye were available. Walleye live fine in our muddy Maumee River that receives lots of agricualtural runoff and gets into the mid 90+F temperatures in summer. Thus I am convinced they can tolerate more warm water and more turbid habitats than the typical stereotype suggests.

I think walleye get the same rap that SMB have gotten. That they can only do well in cooler rocky clear lakes, not muddier warmer lakes like LMB do well in. Just as SMB can live in 90 degree AZ ponds, walleyes may not be quite that tolerant, but are far from trout in needing cold water. Perhaps the very large specimens need cool water refuge, but those sizes are rarely grown in a pond environment. I think water quality may be a more important factor.

CJBS - Good observation.

Very well put. I've seen numerous examples of walleye tolerating water temps in the 80's for several weeks and maintaining good body condition...likely the result of good water quality. I think it's a very safe generalization to say that fish regularly tolerate temperature parameters beyond the so-called "maximum" if they have high D.O., low exposure to pathogens, and consistent access to preferred prey items.

I was fishing for LMB with a buddy of mine in WV's Stonewall Jackson Lake a couple of years ago in mid-summer. Water temps were in the low 80's as I recall and that lake isn't too deep, so it tends to stay fairly warm all summer long. He hooked into, and landed, a beautiful WE that I think was in the neighborhood of 18 - 20 inches. Beautiful fish and obviously not impacted by the warmer water temps here. The lake does have a lot of rocky areas, but we weren't fishing in one of them at the time. Seems consistent with what you're saying, Travis.

In the hopeful near future I am going to try a YP/SMB/RES with abundant forage including crawfish. I may add some WE to see how they do. Warm h20 would be an issue, but if SMB can live in TX and AZ then maybe WE can survive in north FL. FYI it is 24* outside currently.

Is there any supplier that sells Sauger fingerlings anywhere?? I have never seen advertised for sale. I just wondered if anyone knew. I would consider them in my pond since they don't get as large they wouldn't eat larger, nearly eater sized perch like a big walleye would be apt to do.

It is extremely rare to find saugeye fingerlings and even rarer to find sauger fingerlings or larger. Almost all production is by state agencies. IMO walleye are just as good and both tolerate very similar water quality conditions. IMO and experience saugeye are over hyped by DNR's. Plus the saugeye has the strong potential to dilute the native walleye and sauger gene pools when saugeye find there way into native spawning populations.

I think so few private hatcheries produce saugeye because the endeaver is so unprofitable. The only ones that can justify it are those that use taxpayer monies or hobbyists. Efficiency is usually not a factor for DNR's. In general government agencies are rarely concerned with cost effective and highly profitable methods.

JoeG - When I stocked saugeye into my pond, I too believed the same things as you stated above. However with experience is a teacher, and I learned walleye and saugeye both top out at about 4-5 lbs in smaller ponds (0.5-2ac). A 6 lb pond walleye is huge. Both fish as larger adults will "tackle" similar sized perch often 7-8.5"ers. If you want to limit your walleye to smaller individuals then during spawning conditions catch and transfer just male walleye to your pond. Contact hard core walleye anglers and they could probably help you.

Joe, it'll be tough to get walleye by fishing for them in PA in the size range or sex you want. PA's season for walleye isn't open during their spawning run and when it does open, the minimum size limit is 15". If you are looking for just a small number for your pond, you may be able to get some shipped to you from Jone's in Ohio. It may be pricey by the time you throw in shipping though... However, if I recall correctly you're on the western side of PA, so the shipping may not be as bad as it would be for me here in VA.

If you ever want to see something neat take a trip to Raystown Lake around April and go to Great Trough Creek State Park. If you go down to the creek at night, all the walleye pile up below the small dam that is on the creek. Shine a spot light into the water and you can see many walleye stacked up there spawning. It's closed to fishing but surely impressive to see with their eyes glowing brightly... The PA Fish Commission has plenty of Waterway Conservation Officers spying on you there, fun to watch guys get nabbed for poaching the walleye.

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/images/fisheries/afm/2005/7x04_25trough.htm

Bill I was looking more for pure Sauger, they are noted to not reach the larger size that WE can reach. That was my main concern. I suppose I should just buy WE fingerlings and harvest all at 18 inches or so to limit their eating the larger size perch you mention. Once a perch gets that big, I figure he is table bound not WE food.

CJ we have the same situation here at the Pymatuning Reservior, the walleye runs are unreal, and the "green suits with hip boots" are all over there too. I know what you mean on the sizes and spawn, etc. but I may try to get some from the Res. once the ice goes out.

Joe, 10 years ago I had the same thinking as you. Firstly - NO one raises sauger - not even DNRs. Although, I haven't searched recently. Saugeye is as close as one can get to a sauger from a fish farm. I too planned to harvest walleye (saugeye) at 16-18". A lot easier said than done in a perch pond. Over the years, I have caught scads of walleye in numerous habitats - no problem right? It's not happening. They are difficult to catch for varioius reasons in a pond full of perch. They can be caught but not on a dependable basis. The best laid plans of men often fail. You can take that one to the bank. However, I am eager for someone to prove me wrong.

I have learned that for the amount of time that one spends fishing fruitlessly for the walleye one could use that same amount of time in various ways to manually and very effectively thin out the YP to achieve the desired final densities.

I think a good plan is to use just several walleye per acre - 10-16/ac in combination with manual thinning of YP. For some reason WE often grow fairly slow in a pond compared to WE in larger midwestern waters. Thus you have a longer time to try and reduce the numbers before they become eaters of larger YP. One thing to do is not stock too many per acre. WE will eat a few perch and other forage fish but the pond will raise plenty of perch to harvest and U can afford to lose a few to a bonus fish (WE). WE will not normally reproduce so you don't have to worry about recruitment compared to bass. Another option is to use HSB instead of WE. HSB, at least initially, are easier to catch and they fight harder than WE. IMO from ponds HSB are definately not as tastey as WE.

I may not be able to harvest the WE but if you tell my old man they are in there, he will give up a lot of free time jigging for them. I am sure the abundance of food in most ponds makes them harder to catch. Also, the fact is they are a fairly shy bottom lurking sort of fish to begin with and getting close to them in shallower pond water settings could be a challenge making them difficult targets. Have you tried much night fishing for them Bill?? We targeted them at night in Quebec during periods of extreme heat, days approached 90 F but nights were very productive using glow inthe dark jigs. We "charged" the jigs with a camera flash or flashlight, seemed to work better than just a plain white jig, mosquitoes on a June night in Quebec however, well that's another post.

JoeG - You will have to stock WE and form your own conclusions. I've tried limited night fishing. I try hard not to over fish my pond to minimize producing hook smart or shy bite fish. Instead of fun angling, I spend that time managing the pond to optimize the fish that are present. So whenever someone does fish the catch'n is fantastic. Maybe you can devise a good way to target the WE. I have not found that method. My pond's problem is the large perch keep getting to the bait before the WE.

Bill does such a good job of managing his fish every time I show up there's a dead one floating that is dying of old age.

It only seems to happen when I show up. I don't think I'm invited anymore!

Here's one that was floating in Bill's pond when I showed up one day.

looks like he's been munching on a styrofoam cooler.

the fish, too

but more seriously, CB1's face is skinnier....looks like he took off a few since Arlington

As always Bill thanks for the input. I appreciate every bit.