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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,347 Likes: 99
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine Lunker
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Editor, Pond Boss Magazine Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
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AaronM raised some in Phoenix.
Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Lunker
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I am hoping Mr. Lusk will aid me in designing the pond. I am in the piedmont of north carolina. quite flat. Surface water temps reach upward of 82 degrees last summer.
dentist by day
pondboss by night
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Aug 2007 I had 90 deg surface temps,
79 @ 5',
67 @ 10',
54 @ 15',
49 @ 20',
48 @ 25'
Can't find the data for 2008 but it was similar. 2009 was much cooler.
I have SMB & they're doing fine.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Ambassador
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Any idea was the DO was at those depths Ric?
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I only wish CJ. Maybe someday I will be able to splurge on a DO meter.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
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At those temps, if the DO was high enough you could keep trout!
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Yea CJ that's been in the plan. I've had the trout picked out for years now. Cheaper to put them in & see what happens than to buy a meter. Just need to establish more forage first. The SMB are voracious.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014  Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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It would sure be worth a shot.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,760 Likes: 300
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
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Ric, it would be great to see some pics of your smallies.
What are you doing to try to bolster your forage base now that your smallies are bigger?
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 271
Lunker
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Lunker
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Yea CJ that's been in the plan. I've had the trout picked out for years now. Cheaper to put them in & see what happens than to buy a meter. Just need to establish more forage first. The SMB are voracious. That's really cool. If I was lucky enough to have access to a pond like that, I'd be tempted to just buy a dozen 10" RBT, throw them in around this time of year when the whole pond is cold, and see whether they can last the summer.
Ponds in TX, lake place in WI, me in CA
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I'm under 4" of ice right now. Don't have any pics from last summer but the smb were pretty much agerage in wr. Not skinny but not what I wanted therefore the desire for more forage. I attempted to put in some YP last year but most expired. I did see some evidence of survival of YP this summer while feeding the RE but only 2 or 3 observed for certain.
My plan now is to put in gams & some more YP.
My oldest has fished the pond the most but I plan to start testing the waters this spring. Obs. look like there are some 18" smb there. Apx. 80% WR is what I've seen so far.
Starting out I thought I had enough forage & prob. would have but had a poor RE spawn this past spring.
Lesson learned: Be SURE you have enough forage before putting in predators.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Posts: 8,799 Likes: 69 |
I'm under 4" of ice right now. Don't have any pics from last summer but the smb were pretty much agerage in wr. Not skinny but not what I wanted therefore the desire for more forage. I attempted to put in some YP last year but most expired. I did see some evidence of survival of YP this summer while feeding the RE but only 2 or 3 observed for certain.
My plan now is to put in gams & some more YP.
My oldest has fished the pond the most but I plan to start testing the waters this spring. Obs. look like there are some 18" smb there. Apx. 80% WR is what I've seen so far.
Starting out I thought I had enough forage & prob. would have but had a poor RE spawn this past spring.
Lesson learned: Be SURE you have enough forage before putting in predators. Ric Some questions for you/forum - Add more crawdads - add more rocky habitat to provide protection? - How about stocking some adult GSH [6-8"] to help avoid predation and get the spawn on? - I have no experience with Gams but thought their preferred habitat was shallow submerged vegetation. Will the SMB find them there or will they be looking in your rockpiles and crusing open water instead? - My guy in NE has YP and they were affordable and healthy fish -I can recommend this source. Next time Rex is here I'll bet if he can make a route of it he's bring you some. - Do you have beds for the RES to help encourage a spawn or was it just an off year due to other factors? - What else can be done to help re-establish a forage base in the presence of mature apex predators? Many of us face that reality without the BG solution available to them.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau ![[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]](http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii582/teehjaeh57/I_subscribe_zps69249d43.gif)
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Blocking nets and cages work for growing small forage into larger forage. GShiners are very good for SMB ponds. IIRC Doc Cornwell did a PB article on SMB , GShiners , FH and craws. Dave Willis has noted in some northern ponds under some conditions the inability of SMB to control YP #s . Ric do you see any small YP , SMB or RES ? Did you have a good plankton bloom last year around the respective spawning times ? What #s of small , med and large sized fish of all species do you see ? What about craw survival and reproduction?
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Lunker
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tj,
I have the craws & habitat. So much so that I can't establish submerged plants I want.
I would prefer a different approach than GSH. I've measured & weighed that addition & almost put them in since I have a free source.
The gams would be for the imature SMB & the YP & for trout if I ever put them in.
Changing water level due to a leak, GBH's, Green Herrons, & King Fishers were responsible for this years low RE recruitment. Mostly the changing water level.
I have an excellent area to grow out fingerlings but the YP I recieved were in very bad shape & only had prob. 25% initial survival. My net failed afterward contributing to the failure to establish YP.
eric,
I have only observed 3 for sure YP suviving. There's prob. more but not many. YOY SMB are always very plentiful & up until this year small RE were also plentiful.
Judging from BC's PB articles the composition of sizes of SMB in the pond looks good.
The RE are taking pellets well & SMB, even some of the larger ones, were feeding this past summer. I ultimately want the feeding to be an occasional thing, more of a fun/supplemental thing. Therefore I want to beef up the forage base so as not to rely on one, ie: RE, for forage for the SMB since they proved unreliable this past summer.
But the purpose of my reply to docg was to show that 80+ deg surface temps don't negate haveing SMB.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,502 Likes: 268
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,502 Likes: 268 |
Yes I knew that Ric. I was just trying to think of more forage options for your situation or causes for low spawning success.
There are other minnow type options but their availability or effect may be questionable.
Last edited by ewest; 01/14/10 09:52 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,799 Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,799 Likes: 69 |
tj,
I have the craws & habitat. So much so that I can't establish submerged plants I want.
I would prefer a different approach than GSH. I've measured & weighed that addition & almost put them in since I have a free source.
The gams would be for the imature SMB & the YP & for trout if I ever put them in.
Changing water level due to a leak, GBH's, Green Herrons, & King Fishers were responsible for this years low RE recruitment. Mostly the changing water level.
I have an excellent area to grow out fingerlings but the YP I recieved were in very bad shape & only had prob. 25% initial survival. My net failed afterward contributing to the failure to establish YP.
eric,
I have only observed 3 for sure YP suviving. There's prob. more but not many. YOY SMB are always very plentiful & up until this year small RE were also plentiful.
Judging from BC's PB articles the composition of sizes of SMB in the pond looks good.
The RE are taking pellets well & SMB, even some of the larger ones, were feeding this past summer. I ultimately want the feeding to be an occasional thing, more of a fun/supplemental thing. Therefore I want to beef up the forage base so as not to rely on one, ie: RE, for forage for the SMB since they proved unreliable this past summer.
But the purpose of my reply to docg was to show that 80+ deg surface temps don't negate haveing SMB. Lake Chubsucker? Spotnose shiner [they max out around 4" I think]? Scuds? If you need YP let me know. Bruce turned me onto Rob Hofpar north of lincoln. I think my 4-6" YP were $.35/ea. I thought that was a very square deal. Don't know pricing now...that was two years ago and he may have had excees inventory to get rid of. Seems pretty low pricing to me.
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Apr 2003
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Yes I knew that Ric. I was just trying to think of more forage options for your situation or causes for low spawning success.
Can't tell you eric how much I appreciate the help & concern. I thank the heavens often in my mind for the knowledge you guys have offered which has given me as good a pond as I have. I just didn't intend to hijack this thread. tj, Thanks, I'm thinking of calling Zetts for some YP & what they are calling Bull Minnows which I believe CJ identified as something else I can't call right now but is desirable.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Ambassador
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Rick
you hijack all you want. I learn from every entry most anyone writes.
thanks to everyone
dentist by day
pondboss by night
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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you hijack all you want. I learn from every entry most anyone writes.
thanks to everyone
JHAP, here is your Q?...cue....kew? better yet invitation to jump on in and make doc eat his words.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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I'm with you doc. I learn more here everyday. Glad you joined in the journey.
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