Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Forage for a Central Ohio Pond

What would be the best forage fish for a Central Ohio pond trying to grow large LMB? I cant help but feel that bluegill are less than ideal given their lean nature and spiney fins. Has anyone had any luck stocking fingerling rainbows in the winter (given the already cold water)? During the rest of the year, FHM??

I appreciate everyone's input and apologize in advance if this thread already exists and I havent found it.

Happy Holiday everyone!

Bucketmouth

BG make up the backbone of the forage base for LMB in Ohio as elsewhere. Very few other fish are prolific enough to withstand LMB predation.

Additions like GSH, YP, and trout (seasonally), tilapia if you can get them, will help put weight on your bass, but all of these will require restocking to maintain a presence.

Theo provides some good alternatives to BG and seasonally added trout. Choose trout that are optimum size as forage for the larger sized LMB. YP may have a hard time maintaining breeders in your pond with large bass.
If you want to also provide a warm water seasonal fish for growing big bass consider tilapia. Tilapia besides adding lots of extra forage fish, will provide summer long natural filamentous algae control. Just about every pond has issues with filamentous algae during summer. Herbicides often have non-targeted results of inhibiting the lower part of the food web. Check with Rainman (member #3530, http://www.TilapiaStockers.com on this forum about potential deliveries of tilapia to your area.

Depending on the type of LMB you currently have, consider nudging your LMB population toward a more pellet (3/4" nugget, Aquamax largemouth) eating fishery. Selectively remove existing LMB and replace them with pellet trained young adult bass (8"-12"). The new Aquamax largemouth pelleted food feeding program has been producing good results of growing big bass relatively quickly where ever it is used correctly. You can read about it on this forum by using the search feature. The Pond Boss magazine has also had several stories about success of the Aquamax Largemouth feed.

Could someone explain to me why BG are so revered as LMB forage? They are a spiney fish (wouldn't this make them less than desirable to swallow?, take up all of the prime spawing areas in my pond with their en masse spawing, etc. etc,. Wouldn't an aggressive population of FHM, GS, etc. be better? I keep going back to why LMB records almost exclusively come from California. It is for one reason only...stockings of trout. Soft finned, high fat content. The cheeseburger of the sea.

As always...all of your insight and direction is appreciated.

FHM are too small for larger LMB to flourish on (too much energy expended per bite vs. the returns). They are great for the smaller LMB to get a good jump start on life. LMB can eat out a population of FHM.

GSH are good, but they tend to habit more open water, where LMB tend to stick closer to cover. They get to a larger size (up to 10") and they are much better then FHM for the larger LMB.

The RBT are great forage for LMB, but expensive because they won't spawn in a pond. They won't live in warmer water that the LMB flourish in, but as you said, are high in fat content and are the shape that make them easy to go down.

BG is the favorite forage for LMB by pondmeisters because they inhabit the same areas of the pond that LMB do, prefer almost the same temperature as LMB, and spawn prolifically (lots of forage, although they can overrun a pond).

I'll bet that if you look closely at the lakes in Ca. that push out the biggest LMB, you'll see that the trout are stocked in the cooler months, and the waters also have a good population of BG and RES.

Another option would be to add pumpkinseeds which don't grow as large as BG and would be easier for the LMB to swallow, also PS's tolerate the cold weather better than BG.
Also less likely to overrun a pond cause they produce 1/2 or less eggs than BG.
No matter what you stock, it comes down to a balancing act.

The amount of trout stockings in those Cali. lakes (where the record LMB are) is huge!

If it wasn't already mentioned, most folks say that it takes 10 lbs. of forage fish eaten to put on 1 lb. of weight on the LMB.

So imagine if you stocked 100 lbs. of Golden Shiners in your pond; you might get 10 lbs. plus of weight gained across the entire LMB population. If you have 100 LMB, that is not much.
Granted, some of the Golden Shiners will take hold, but not like putting in 100 lbs. of Golden Shiners.

Sunil:

You said it. Some of those lakes are stocked with 1,000# of RBT every week during the colder months. I think I personally know of only one Pondmeister (and he's not on here) that could afford that.
FWIW, Ca. stocked 68,900# of trout in Southern Ca. lakes in December 2008 alone.

In a normal LMB pond there is no such thing as an aggresive population of FHM or GS. Won't happen due to the reproductive nature of the LMB and habits of FHM and GS. However the GS is a much better forage for growing bigger LMB than the FHM. The more the diverse the forage items for LMB are in a pond, the more helpful GS become in being an asset for growing bigger LMB providing the LMB population is managed properly - (not allowed to get too abundant/numerous). The GS is not as a predictable nor as succesful of a spawner as BG. This gives BG the edge for growing LMB. As esshup mentioned FHM are only efficient forage for LMB until the LMB get to around 12"-13" long. Then the energy efficiency and growth potential rapidly decreases for the LMB for feeding regularly on FHM. For more information on this read up on the optimum foraging concept.

BG normally get too large for the largest LMB to eat which is not true for the GS. Thus in a pond without perfect habitat and a population of LMB skewed toward large sizes (19"+) they will easily eliminate the largest breeder GS if they are the primary larger sized forage item for the LMB. Once the optimum sized forage item becomes scarse then the growth potential for the larger bass rapidly decreases. This is the main reason why in many ponds the LMB usually top out at around 3-6 lbs.

This brings up a topic rarely discussed on this forum. Quantity of optimum sized forage items. LMB and most predators instinstively try to capture and eat the weakest individuals in the forage community. As the numbers of forage items increase, the more individuals that are ill, weak, and senile/aged increaes. These are very vulnerable AND valuable food items that the predators subsist on, rely on and key on - the most vulnerable in the community. Normally the best and healthiest individuals are hardest for preators to capture. Having to always capture the healthiest individuals causes the predator to expend a lot of energy. The culling of the gene pool and cleaning up and making use of aged individuals is how nature maintains balance and perpetuates healthy populations. Thus when the forage base becomes low, or less than optimum, number of vulnerable indidvuals decreases and then the predator base suffers; in this case LMB and lack of optimum growth. So depending on what the goal size of predator you have will depend on how you stock and manage your pond.

In addition to all above, the BG can be a very good sport panfish (willing bitter and good table fare) in a pond, thus adding very good fishing diversity. Not true for FHM and GS. Thus for as universal forage fish the BG is best. Adding food item diversity that is able to thrive year after year in the pond is always beneficial to improving the overall fishery if it is well managed.

Partial quote from Bucketmouth:

"They take up all of the prime spawing areas in my pond with their en masse spawing"

Bucketmouth - They may not take up as much of the prime spawning area as it appears. Largemouth generally make their nests in deeper water than do bluegill.

Bing

LMB also spawn earlier than BG so there isn't competition between the two for spawning areas.

And the LMB babies are grown up enough to feed on the baby YOY BG. Mother Nature plans well!