Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Trophy LMB pond versus catch rate

For the first 2 years I had absolute proof that we were not the only people fishing on our pond. On two separate occasions we actually arrived at our property to find people fishing the pond. A third occasion we found no people but a boat on the shore next to the pond. On multiple occasions we found beer bottles and cans littering the shoreline and once a complete fishing rig. This had been an on going battle. This pond had been treated as a community pond by some fishermen and horse owners. One of the first things we did in 2006 was fix some fence between us and some pasture land. Later that year someone cut the barbed wire fence so that they could ride horses around the pond. With the help of a neighbor we spread the word that this behavior would no longer be tolerated. We re-repaired the fence and put up temporary no trespassing signs (the mylar paper ones). The only unfenced portion of our property was between us and the "helpful" neighbor. We then found out he was letting people access our pond. He lost his house in foreclosure and we fenced the 600 feet between his (former) property and ours (last fall). Now all of our 30 acres are fenced and has permanent (aluminum) no trespassing signs all along the 30 acres and on posts in strategic locations such that the pond cannot be accessed without walking past one. Each trip we examine around the pond for any sign of trespassing and DIED does the same every time he visits our property. (To say that DIED and his wife Jean have been a great friends and very helpful to me would be an horrible understatement, he checks up on our place every couple of months.) For the past year we have not found any evidence of anyone on the property so I think that situation has been remedied.

JHAP, I am retiring soon perhaps you could hire me as your pond gaurd at a low hourly rate as long as I can fish.

Jeff do you have a constant flow of water through the pond from the springs?

That is an added bonus of the game camera. Prior to our December visit I'm going to give Greg Grimes a call and get a game camera. I have a spot in mind on a cedar tree that is on the main trail/road and right next to the pond. From this vantage point you can see the primary location that I have found the majority of evidence of both human and animal visitors. I think that I can place it a on the truck of the tree, up out of reach, perhaps 10-12 feet up the trunk and aimed at the trail and pond shore.

I believe all the evidence points to that. In 2005 and 2006 numerous groups of 10-14 inch bass in the pond. We stocked the pond in 2007 with the BG and RES and they were all over the pond in spring and summer. While kayaking around the pond you would see fish everywhere. We even named one area of the pond "Greensunny Land" (sort of after the famous surf spot Velzyland) because GSF hung out in hordes in this area. We once caught over 20 GSF in under an hour fishing at this spot). Unfortunately also in 2007 Elodea took over the pond. Then in fall of 2007 everything changed. Suddenly your would only rarely see a fish in the pond, catch rates fell off completely. We didn't see the juvenile bass or sunfish - they had just vanished.

In 2008 we began to see recovery. In Spring fry were everywhere and we would see schools of YOY BG and LMB and the clouds of bullhead that we documented. Frogs were everywhere. The pond had gone through a complete metamorphosis.




With the lord willing, we intend to visit the pond a lot in 2010. I am going to map out a plan to do some real data collection and surveying. I have a 25 foot long, 5 foot deep seine and we're going to begin some live bait fishing (shhhh, don't tell Ricki). DIED is busy a lot but I have been researching kidnapping techniques so he is gonna participate, willingly or otherwise.

Truthfully I'd welcome that. Are we taking federal minimum wage hourly rate or Kathie Lee Gifford hourly rate? I think I can afford the Kathie Lee Gifford rate.

Lands minds are a one time expense and work rather well... So I hear anyways.

HOLY MOLY that must be a HUGE feeder! The heat could be an issue. The summer at our property gets HOT. July usually has 10 days to 2 weeks of 100+ temperatures.

I rather not start down the road of feeding (other than adding a box of Golden Shiner fry) but if this will mean the difference of having a pond that has a great catch rate and not then I will go down that road. (ahhhh, Ricki about that kitchen remodel that you've been wanting.......)

Yes, year round.

Here's an aerial of the property taken sometime prior 2005 and I would guess during the early summer (probably May based upon the condition of the vegetation). The yellow lines are topography lines, the red lines outline the 30 acres, the black lines are interior parcel boundaries (we purchased 3 ten acre parcels). North is at the top of the photo. The dam is on the west (left) side of the pond and shows up as the relatively straight shoreline (where the red property line parallels the pond shore line).


A seasonal creek enters the pond on the east side (right side in this photo) and only runs seasonally (this photo must have been taken during the summer and so the creek does not appear in this photo. Two springs are along the South shore line east of the dam about 50 feet or so. They run year long, while swimming you can actually feel the water movement and temperature differential (these are mountain springs and in the summer the spring water is significantly colder that the pond water).
One of my theories is that this is why the pond has remained relatively healthy for a 60 year old pond. There is not that much silt and the water quality seems good.

The spring helps reduce evaporation some but unfortunately cannot keep up with the hot summers. Our pond quite literally lowers 5 to 6 vertical feet in a normal year. In a bad year, such as last year we lost between 7 - 9 vertical feet.

I gotta confess, it was me. JHAP, yes, the feeder will increase your catch rate, and it'll increase the size of the catches. But, you'll be spending a bit more $$ to buy some Stubby Steves'.

I was fishing in the pond a couple of days ago with minimal luck, using a small spinner. Once the feeder went off, the catching picked up, even a hundred feet away from the feeder.

I have read all of the posts so far on this topic and will now go back to this sentence: "So given that a pond can only support so many pounds of predators (50-75 pounds of LMB per surface acre based upon "Raising Trophy Bass")"

You all are talking as though the bass are the only predators. What about the bluegills that are over 5 inches in length? They will eat minnows too and bluegills of practically any size will eat many of the same insects that the bass eat. Are the bluegills and other fish such as channel catfish to be ignored in this formula?

Lastly, I chase our neighborhood great blue heron away when he shows up but my brother-in-law watches his herons eat many bass in his pond. Additionally, his herons often kill bass and then find that they are too big to eat, leaving them lying around dead. Kingfishers can also remove a lot of minnows. This kind of predation can't be ignored if it is significant.

I appreciate your thoughtful responses and the fact that you all seem to appreciate your ponds for more than just fishing.

Fred, good points, but we haven't forgotten about the "other" predators in the pond. We just look at it like a food pyramid. Everything fits into place and at the top of the pyramid generally sits a dominant predator. Could be Large Mouth Bass, could be Small Mouth Bass, could be Channel Cat, could be a combination of two species. This food pyramid begins at what "algae(?) and then continues upward until you reach dominant predator. (We have actually had discussions that the food pyramid begins as sunlight conveying energy, how is that for deep?).

It order for the pond to be at optimum productivity every portion of the pyramid must be in place and in the correct ratio or some portion of the pyramid will suffer.

A wise man once told me...

"Since it is virtually impossible to maintain a pond in a perfect state of balance, a pond is continuously migrating from one stage of imbalance to another."

Think about that for a moment. Every pond is in constant motion from one stage of imbalance to another. Pretty prophetic eh? Oh and the wise man was Ewest, and those are probably not Eric's exact words but you get the idea.

Or at least that's my opinion, but I'm just a parking lot attendant.

Although we joke around a lot we all share one thing in common, we are passionate about our ponds, and we like to have fun. Ok, we all share two things in common.