Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations What critter would do this?

Bksi, check steeper banked areas the next time you are at LNP. You may find more burrows that with too much ground over them to collapse or have been easily dug up.

When you are looking for dens/runs, pay close attention to the dam. If you do have a 'rat population, I'd check with the DNR and see what you need to do to cut the population nunbers down legally. Even tho you can use the SSS method, you really don't need the boy's (and girl's) in green asking questions. They can multiply pretty rapidly, and make a mess of the banks and dam. With fur prices down over the past years, there isn't a lot of incentives for trappers to be out, so the excess population needs new homes, and the habitat that you are creating is calling. Nature abhors a void. The next thing you'll see is a mink, which prey on the 'rats, but it won't be enough to keep the population in check.

If you look close at the first pic, to the right of the dirt in the water, and to the left of the grass, it looks like a 'rat run going to the caved in area. If you had hip waders on, you can walk in the water and stick your toe in that area. If you can feel a semi-circular trench going up under the bank of the pond, you can be assured that it was made by a muskrat. They don't tunnel or make runs in deep water, the deepest that I've seen them around here is in 2' of water.

Beaver on the other hand, will make runs much deeper. I trapped a 70# one at a duck club in Plainfield years ago that had a run in waist deep water, and the bottom of the run was deeper than my chest waders. The 330 caught him right behind the ears and the trap hardly moved. That's when I really started to respect the power that's in the 330's.

Thanks for tune up, esshup. Back during my pond -101 days, MR was part of the introductory course. It included their burrowing and den characteristics. Some time ago, a couple of threads got fired up on the forum, but I don't recall that the subject matter came along far enough to seriously consider eradication. Assuming this is what I am faced with, I might be joining Fat McB in extending the varmint learning curve.
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So...let's say we are sure that there are MR at the pond. I'm absentee and only make day trips. There is nobody nearby (neighbor) that is going to volunteer do visual checks, much less help eradicate. My first thought is to take a couple of hours and walk the shoreline with a #6 rebar and jam it into the bank next to the waterline every foot or so to find cavities (where's a dentist when ya really need him?). If I find an obvious subterranean hideout, go out into the water, find the entrance, and set a conibear. Make sense?
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WRT the dam, I am always concerned, but the substantial dam mass we constructed and high clay content lessens my concern for a breach. Of course, the damage at any point within the pond bothers me.

Snipe. Definately snipes.

Brettski:

If the water is clear and you can see the bottom for a couple feet out past the shore, you probably don't need the rebar poker.
Just look for their runs. It's too late now, but the easiest time to find the runs is right after the ice forms on the pond. When they leave their den the air that is in their fur will come out when they hit the water and it'll leave a bubble trail beneath the ice that leads right to their den as long as the ice is clear.

Also, while the conibears will work just fine, it's a catch one-reset thing. There are cage traps on the market (or you could make your own) that will catch more than one at a time.

Think of the havahart type live traps, but the doors are on each end, and are facing the other way. Gravity holds the doors down, and the 'rats open them when try and go thru them. The cages are long enough so that when they hit the other closed door the door that they pushed open to get in closes behind them. The 'rats will normally swim along the bottom of their runs, or at least dive down when swimming to their den. These cage traps have the hinge on the top outside rather than top inside and door is inside the cage. One door at each end, the traps can catch 4-5 at a time. The key is to have the top of the trap at least a couple of inches under water so they drown. I'll do some digging and see if I can find a website or pic for ya.

I made some out of 1/2" hardware cloth and hog rings that worked just fine. They are bulkier than the conibears, and some states don't allow their use. But, considering that they will catch more than one 'rat at a time, they are VERY effective if placed in an active run.

This will give you an idea what they look like.
Muskrat colony trap

To set those traps, all you need is a thick wooden broom handle with a hook screwed into one end. Pick up the trap with the hook, place it in the center of the run, close to the den entrance and you are good to go. You can use your hands to place them, but that's no fun when it's right above freezing outside and the water is in the 30's as well. No staking required if you can check it within 24 hr. (less chance of a predator/scavenger to find it and cart the whole mess off to get at the prize inside) If you place it within a foot or so of the entrance and it's empty the next day, nobody's using that den and it's time to move it. Another tip for finding an active den is look at the bottom of the 'rat run. If there isn't any sediment built up on the bottom of the run then it's in use.

Thanks for all the input and support. Since I am absentee, and this is an entirely new facet of pond management for me, I am going to take second fiddle in the beginning. I have enlisted one of the local trappers to take at look and report. I contacted our state wildlife biologist and got the the green light to trap as management of a nuisance. He contacted the game warden to alert him, also. Here we go...

It'll be interesting to see what he gets!

They have Sasquatch in Illinois?

We met with Trapper Joe today. He walked the entire shoreline while I wrapped up laying out logistics with my excavator and the power company guru for our garage project.
Anyway, Joe the trapper came back from his hike and confirmed we gots rats. As I mentioned, this is all new to me, so you seasoned rat experts have to bear with me while I share some of the things he told me. As always, there might be another rat neophyte out there that might have use for it.
They're preparing to rear young right now. He told me that he wished that I would have called him last fall. I didn't understand, as we continued to talk. He said last season, rat pelts were going for anywhere from $4 to upwards of $10 each, but the market swings like the stock market. He asked me if we could wait until fall for him to trap. He said that they weren't into the dam, but definitely along the low shorelines at 2 distinct areas. I reminded him that I had permission from the State wildlife biologist and the Game Warden to trap right now. Why wait? He said their pelts are worthless right now. They won't grow into their valuable fur coats until it gets closer to fall/winter. He said that if we really wanted them trapped, he would do it anyway, noting that he doesn't charge for any trapping; pay is keeping the critters. He also added that trapping this time of year is useless to him, but he will to keep a customer happy, and that he would accept "donations", but they are not required/expected. I could sense his desire to put me on his circuit as a regular. Quite frankly, based on this guy's references from trusted locals, I think I would like to be on his list.
By now, it dawns on me that he wants those little varmints to multiply and start growing more fur coats for him to harvest this fall. I told him I wanted them gone now, but assured him that I saw continuing need for his services and that this could become a regular gig for him when it is more profitable. This is what he wanted to hear...and it works for me, too. He is pretty tight with the GW. He said that he wouldn't have any time in the next couple of weeks (other commitments) and that he wanted to run it by the GW as a courtesy. I told him that since the pelts had no value and he was putting time and effort into it, we could come up with a nominal "per rat" value that I would pay him. I dropped the number $5 per rat. He was receptive. He's gonna take care of his business and let me know the plan in the next week or two.
Since we have had so much rain over the recent weeks, my water visbility is about 6". He said that it would be difficult for him to find the submerged den entry holes, but he has floating traps that work kinda like a minnow trap...except for rats. He noted that he has hundreds of different types of traps for all special occassions.
He also reminded me that another of his specialties is coon trapping.

Even if they were to multiply the small yearling rats would not bring much $ this year unless he waits till very late in the season. Trappers are sportsmen too & most hate to waste an animal. If I was doing the trapping my first inclination would be to wait until the fur the animal is contributing with his death is worth something. But if he's in MY pond I want him out ASAP!
Usually a GW has to be very careful with recomendations so this guy must be of good character which means he's someone you can trust on your prop.
So it's to both your advantages to work out a compromise but more so yours than his.
I think you done good Bretski offering $5.00 per rat. He would prob. have settled for gas money or less.
You show your high character by offering him that much!

Sounds like you've got a winner there! Yeah, the pelts are worthless now. $10.00 ea seems a bit optomistic to me from looking at the fur auctions last year....

$5.00 ea is way more than fair. He doesn't have to skin, flesh and dry them. I'd tell him to get 'em out asap, and come back during trapping season to catch any that might see the vacancy sign. I'd give him the go ahead to take care of some 'coon as well (this Fall), they do a pretty good job on nesting waterfowl.

Locally, the 'rats don't get prime (have good fur for the garment industry) until late November. They are about 50% to 70% prime the 15th of Nov, when trapping season opens, but it also depends on how cold it is in late Oct/early Nov. they're called "blue backs" then because you can see where the fur isn't prime on the inside of the skin once they're skinned. Once they are fully prime, the bluish color isn't there. Where it's legal to trap into the Spring, the 'rats fight during breeding season and the pelts are devalued because of the cuts on their backs.

Also, make sure you have it figured out where the dead 'rats will be put. On your place or will he take them with him and dispose of them? That shouldn't be a problem during trapping season because he'll take them with him to skin them out, but he doesn't have to skin them now.....

Interesting. I was hoping you'd find out what it was. I've seen rats out swimming in the water while out duck hunting and was surprised by them. It just seems odd that they are out there in the water when it's at or below freezing. I guess the fur of theirs does a really good job of keeping them warm. I've never shot them, so I've never seen their fur up close. I've shot beaver and other fur bearers, but never thought about rats. What is the fur used for? Coats? Do they give it a different name? or do they sell it as rat fur? I'm struggling with the concept that people are buying rat fur.

Eddie

I'll leave the application explanation to google and experienced trapper like esshup that have trapped them for income. From what little I have read, they are exported into Europe.

Well, time for a muskrat update...
I just got a call from Trapper Joe. He got 7 of 'em. He now wants to wait until this fall to come back in for the next round of trapping.
In keeping with my offer to pay $5 per rat (since they are out of season and worthless for fur trade), I offered to send him a check for the work performed. He quickly waved it off and would not hear of it. He repeated his desire to come back this fall. He did mention that maybe, if I didn't mind, he might like to come back to collect some frogs. No problem, Joe...frogs it is, my man.

Is he a hunter? He may have an eye on getting your permission to hunt also... Wouldn't be the first time a hunter was awful nice in the hopes at getting permission to hunt a prime piece of property! Not that I would know anything about that...

Trapper Joe just blew in a call. He's gettin' ready for another season and wants to make sure that I still want him trappin' my rats. I gave him 2 big thumbs up. He said he should be out there in a couple of weeks.

Since Season opens Thursday, I'm guessing he's waiting a bit for them to prime up. (It's still a bit warm out).

Strictly 'rats or 'coon as well?

all rats, all the time
Until any other critter causes me significant damage, they are safe.

B'ski, you may want to reconsider letting Joe get some coons also. You won't have much incentive (rat #'s) for him to continue trapping them. He'd probably hardly put a dent in the coon population and they may give him a good reason to keep coming back for the rats. Coons will do some digging also. Perhaps set a limit of 20-25 coons per season

Personally, I would'nt spend more than a day or two in frigid water for a "Potential" 30-40 dollars total.

The fur prices are down this year, but things might turn around if Russia and China show interest in buying. Unfortunately, there is a significant supply of furs from last year still in the warehouses. I was wondering about the 'coons because they hit waterfowl and upland bird nests & young pretty hard. I know that you (Brettski) have quite a few nests protected from predators, but once they leave the nest they are fair game.

I think Brettski has a $5.00/head bounty on the 'rats.

Coons hit all the ground nesting birds hard eating whole nests of eggs & chicks. Without trappers thinning their numbers all we have to control them is yotes & highways & trappers are getting scarce. If you like quail & phesants etc. removing as many coons as possible is a good plan.

I'm puzzled by lots of muskrat sign a couple of weeks ago and traps have been in, in front of all potential holes but not one muskrat or trap sprung. I've had this happen before where they seem to move on. Or maybe a mink got them? ( I refuse to wait until trapping season to nail them and my local CO doesn't seem to want to be bothered by the nuisance permit.)

Just be glad you guys don't have to deal with five star moles. I just drained two production ponds an there are several holes way up into the bank. I had one go straight through 10 feet of dike last spring.

Cecil:

If you were able to disturb them before they got winter runs dug, then they might have been YOY that were looking for a new home. You might have disturbed them enough for them to move to quieter pastures.

Is that the actual Michelin Guide rating, Cecil, or are you exaggerating?

Cecil, at least you're not dealing with them in VA... They're considered threatened here and are protected!