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My advice is to lay out as much cash as you feel comfortable with and get whatever you want.

If I understand, you're getting (10) 9" fish?

I'd reallocate and get at least (20) of those. It will be the highest percentile of survival, and you have 3.5 acres.

I would get a few of the smaller fish also. The SMB are a sly fish, and they'll survive and grow. And admit it, there's nothing more cute than a 3-4" SMB. Just makes you all warm inside.

Now to the business. Your B.I.S.A. dues are in severe arears. I think we are going to ease up on the $1,000,000.00 initiation fee. For you, TJ, let's make it $450,000.00. No interest or penalities. We're not the IRS, you know.


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TJ, I agree with Sunil. I'd reallocate your funds and go with at least 10 SMB per acre, so that'd be 35 fish. Then what ever you have left over, I'd put into the smaller ones.

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Why not JUST stock the repro pond with larger fish and then transfer offspring into cages and get them on pellets until 4-6 inches prior to releasing in the main pond?


12 ac pond in NW Missouri. 28' max depth at full pool. Fish Present: LMB, BG, RES, YP, CC, WB, HSB, WE, BCP, WCP, GSH.
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I think there is some confusion here with what TJ is doing with the larger 9"-10" smallies. I think he is putting them in a separate smaller reproduction pond where he will transfer out the offspring to the larger 3.5 ac pond. I'm not use how big this reproduction pond is.


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Good points, everyone.

I could wait for my existing adults [8] in the reproduction pond to spawn, but they might not. This is my first effort at this and I've been told SMB spawning is not automatic. I'm trying to temper my expectations.

If I do pull a spawn, then I'd have to hope enough YOY survive the summer...again, I've been told to expect predation from adult SMB on the YOY despite the large amounts of FHM and GSH I stocked as forage. [the minnows might nail my fry too!]

So, let's say I'm successful on both accounts above. Now I have many 2-6" fish and could stock them into the pond. However, bear in mind those 10-12" YP are now up to 14", the HSB are pushing 18-20", and BG and RES are 8+ too. Much more predation on SMB is likely.

With all those factors in mind, I think stocking SMB now, at a size safe from predation, is right. I will take 4 of the 9" adults from Hartley's and stock them into the repro pond making my population 12 adult fish. I'm leaving it at that. The other 6 9"ers and the 250 4-6"ers will make it to the main pond. This will be my first, and last, stocking of SMB from a hatchery other than my own. Too rich for my blood.


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TJ you don't have to use small ones especially since you can add them from the other pond in time if needed. Use a blocking net when you do as per those threads. I am not sure you need that many (250) mid-size SMB. You could save a few $ on them. 150 of that size plus 25 larger ones would save you $ 340.

Last edited by ewest; 10/07/09 08:22 PM.















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I agree with ewests last & quote from Dave W:
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Stockings rates? If you go with 4-6 inch fish, I don't think that I'd go over 50/acre. For 3.5 acres, that would be 175 total? What's everyone think about that??

Smaller numbers of SMB mean bigger SMB sooner & therefore fish with greater chance of reaching their full potential. My pond is apx 2.5+ ac & I stocked 100 SMB. I got extraordinary initial growth.


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These are good points...but remember my BG YOY - I need them crushed - does this temper you qty recommendations?


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I like how you conveniently avoid discussing your B.I.S.A dues.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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You give me a proper initiation party and we'll see if I can't get around to cutting said cheque. We're talking Peso's or Yen?


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Rupees.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
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 Quote:
but remember my BG YOY - I need them crushed - does this temper you qty recommendations?

Yes, I forgot about those & I don't have an athorative answer. I would guess it depends on goals. With the lower predator stocking rate you may likely end up stunting the BG. I get lost trying to figure it all out .. how would it all affect the YP? But you also have Wipers. They will help with the BG YOY? Dave W? ewest? BC? Anyone?


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Firstly, IMO the adult smalies in the repro pond with presence of ample minnow/shiner forage will not eat a significant or large percentage of the YOY bass - see my Nov-Dec 09 PBoss article "Growing Smallies Into Trophies" for more details about this topic.
I agree with TJ since he has basically a "full" crop of YOY BG, he needs them "hammered" or else he is going to have problems in 2010 and 2011 with way too many BG. Supposedly adult YP will effectively prey on BG especialy during winter. For several reasons, I think that research was biased and good predation of his 2009 YOY BG by the YP will not happen this winter. Thus the more larger smallies he can add, the better the predation of the 2009 BG crop will be. I even question the ability of the newly stocked immature smallies (4"-9") to control YOY BG when other soft rayed forage are available and common(again for details of this see my Nov-Dec. Smallie article).

I predict, that without LMB, this pond will need supplimental removal of 2009 BG crop to achieve a balance. I hope I am wrong about this. Time will tell.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/08/09 09:05 PM.

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 Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Firstly, IMO the adult smalies in the repro pond with presence of ample minnow/shiner forage will not eat a significant or large percentage of the YOY bass - see my Nov-Dec 09 PBoss article "Growing Smallies Into Trophies" for more details about this topic.
I agree with TJ since he has basically a "full" crop of YOY BG, he needs them "hammered" or else he is going to have problems in 2010 and 2011 with way too many BG. Supposedly adult YP will effectively prey on BG especialy during winter. For several reasons, I think that research was biased and good predation of his 2009 YOY BG by the YP will not happen this winter. Thus the more larger smallies he can add, the better the predation of the 2009 BG crop will be. I even question the ability of the newly stocked immature smallies (4"-9") to control YOY BG when other soft rayed forage are available and common(again for details of this see my Nov-Dec. Smallie article).

I predict, that without LMB, this pond will need supplimental removal of 2009 BG crop to achieve a balance. I hope I am wrong about this. Time will tell.


1. Bill, I was hoping the existence of forage in the repro pond might help the SMB YOY survival. Relieves some of the concern I harbored - thanks.

2. I do worry about the heavy GSH/FHM populations competing with SMB YOY for zooplankton. With that in mind would you recommend:

A. Regular fertilzing?
B. Regular AP Fry Powder feedings daily with a belt feeder?

3. Spring 10 or 11 I will sex some LMB if needed and add single sex to the main pond to help control BG.


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TJ:

I don't mind driving down to hammer those YOY CBG. Now to figure out how to get them to survive an 8 hr drive inside the car.

Could it wait 'till early next Spring after ice-out here? I'll have the pier and cages ready by then.


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 Originally Posted By: esshup
TJ:

I don't mind driving down to hammer those YOY CBG. Now to figure out how to get them to survive an 8 hr drive inside the car.

Could it wait 'till early next Spring after ice-out here? I'll have the pier and cages ready by then.


1. My PBFamily is welcome anytime! 8 hrs is not an issue with 02. Heck, with cold temps you may even be able to get away with aeration - but I'll leave that to the experts.

2. Spring is great too...can't believe we're already talking Spring...it's not even officially Autumn yet!


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 Quote:
2. I do worry about the heavy GSH/FHM populations competing with SMB YOY for zooplankton. With that in mind would you recommend:

A. Regular fertilzing?
B. Regular AP Fry Powder feedings daily with a belt feeder?

TJ - I would not worry about too little zooplankton for the smallie fry in the larger regular pond. I think SMB fry and minnows will be feeding in differen niche areas and enough smallie fry will survive to provide good recruitment. Over winter the YP, SMB, and HSB may thin out the minnows so there won't be as many as this fall.

What are the minnow/shiner populations like in the reproduction pond? Even there the minnows would have to be pretty dense to compete heavily with the SMB fry. 12 Breeder smallies can eat quite a few minnows during the winter, spring, early summer period.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/09/09 09:37 PM.

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I'd say I have 5k FHM. I plan on adding more if you recommend and don't feel competition for zoopl would exist with the YOY SMB.


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TJ you can help the SMB in the big pond by trapping and seining out small BG. Another method is disturbing the BG beds by dragging a seine across them during the spawn for about 10 days. Another option is partial rotenone of the beds but that is best done by an expert.
















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Good advice Eric. I will be culling every Female I catch, and will try traps and seines. I know Rainman wants every CSBG I can collect and other forum members are welcome to as many as they want. My only request is they stay long enough to let me feed them a steak dinner then get some cocktails with Brucile. I feel blessed to have a CSBG factory that will enable me to help others out whenever they need it.

How's that for looking at glass half full?


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When you put it that way, the glass runneth over.

P.S. Try further spawning disturbances by catching male BG off the beds.

Last edited by Theo Gallus; 10/09/09 11:40 PM.

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Free steak? Did TJ really say that?

Looks like I'm delivering smallies, puttin' on the feedbag and leavin' with a bunch of CSBG! Life can be grand as a PBF member!



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 Originally Posted By: Rainman
Free steak? Did TJ really say that?


Dang if it wasn't a two day drive.....

 Originally Posted By: Rainman
Life can be grand as a PBF member!


Very true Rex, very true!


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 Originally Posted By: Rainman
Free steak? Did TJ really say that?

Looks like I'm delivering smallies, puttin' on the feedbag and leavin' with a bunch of CSBG! Life can be grand as a PBF member!


It's smoked muskrat steak for you, Rex...with a smooth PVCish finish on the palate.


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Cocktails and a steak dinner with you and Brucille, huh?

Tempting, but no, you're going to need more. Get Shawn Banks over there to facilitate ensuring that no attendee gets to bed at a reasonable hour. Just make sure to tell him "no Keystone Light."


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