Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations A New and Unusual Pond

I've just begun to fill a small pond fed by natural hot springs. The overflow of the springs is a maximum of 29 gpm and is the only source of water available. It's surprisingly non-mineralized (229tds)and shows up at the pond at 115F, then flows over ten feet of small waterfalls and enters the pond at about 105F.
The soil is best described as broken dishes (granite sheets) in a sand box, but the pond is holding water very well on only a pound of bentonite per square foot....until it reaches about a foot from the top and then it stalls out with that last foot taking three days in inch up to within a tantalizing 3/8" from the overflow pipe. It is nothing but a back-hoe dug dish on a dry hillside with a four foot dam of native soil on the downhill side.
I drained it down this weekend and just added another 500 pounds of bentonite crumbles around the top foot and in suspicious places in the bottom and it's again refilling.
The springs are at least 12000 years old and the water has never run more than a half mile before sinking into the desert. Soil permeability is roughly 'can't pour fast enough to make a puddle'. Very fast and only six inches of precipitation a year. It's spring water or no water.
The pond capacity is only about 35000 gallon and 1500 square feet surface area with a maximum depth of five feet. (I can double capacity easily by deepening parts of the extensive shallows.)
No one has ever tried to raise fish in this water and none naturally occur. It is an isolated oasis with no connection to other water at all. Anybody want to suggest some ideas of how to start to see what is viable?
Ambient water temperature should level out to about 77F and maybe dip to mid 50s in the winter. Local strong, dry winds could reduce that some.
The simple little overflow pond is, right now, a totally blank slate. I have water analysis if needed.
Help??

I know Blue Tilapia would make it year 'round if the water temp doesn't drop below 45*, I'm at a loss as to what other fish will take close to a 50* temp swing on the high end of the scale. Maybe some sub-tropical fish.

What temp will Peacock bass survive?

Welcome Spud.

Could you divert the water away from the pond and only use it when the water level drops.

I think you could also aerate the water to help cool it off but I am not sure how much of an effect it would have.

I was under the impression that both Tilapia an Channel Catfish were grown out in the warm ground water of Idaho vs. the cold water aquifer which is strictly trout.

What a unique situation... There are several cichlid species that may be interesting in waters like that. If the waters drop into the mid 50's they may not survive the colder winter months though?

What is the temp range for BG?

Forget the fish and make a HOT TUB!!!!

Pirhanas do pretty good in warm water too, that could be interesting?

This is sheer guesstimation, but first I would say CNBG would be a better option in this situation. I would say water temps over 100 would be fatal, perhaps even over 95 or so... Eric, you probably have access to a scientific journal abstract with info on the maximum temp limits for BG?

The whole pond is not going to be 100 degrees plus, just the area near the spring. If the pond hovers around 80 degrees most of the time you could use any number of species.

If the temp is too high just make the water take a longer route to the pond

Does the incoming water temperature remain relatively constant year round? If yes, I'm wondering if you'll ever see the low end of the range you indicated.

I guess I have just sometimes dreamed of having a hot springs/ natural hot tub. How cool would that be???
I would make the first pool HOT with mucho boulders for ambiance! (I learned that word from Bob at the conference and was dying to try it out) He said the springs at Big Cedar were left on all night long to add to the ambiance of the place. We thought they could save a few bucks by turning them off so late at night.

My first concern would be the water chemistry. Tilapia could handle the temp swings and even the high temp for quite a while. I would fear a high sulfer content. Do any plants grow well in the water?

Welcome to the Forum HotSpud..........
It will be interesting to see what can live in your hot spring situation. I actually visited a desert Hot Spring near Palm Desert Ca. and found it really fascinating.
The people on this forum really know about fish, so someone should be able to come up with some ideas for you. Good luck.

Hey! A guy could get behind in reading here in a hurry. Thanks for all the input.

Chris-- I can divert the water and pipe it under the pond to exit below the dam. Further aeration is not possible without using a pump. I'd rather not divert any water, because irrigation is essential for anything but sage brush to grow.

Cecil--You're right. My old neighbor raised Talapia, channel cats and alligators using warm artesian wells just north of Buhl. The big trout hatcheries (600,000 lbs/week) are on the north side of the Snake River fed by cold water springs coming out the canyon walls. Those waters are even less mineralized than here, but some hot wells in that area have too much silica and kills fish....usually 200ppm or so.

CJBS--My first hot water property was near the above mentioned fish farms. I stocked four small decorative pools with $10 assortment of Walmart tropicals. After a year, the chilids were doing great. I may try the same process here after I get some vegetation going. With night-time temps now in the 40s and some dry winds, the pond is leveling out at 74 degrees mid-depth with definite thermoclines. The hot water stays near the surface and bends with the winds around the banks. Ten feet from the falls it's down to mid 90s.
Once the house is occupied, some water will be cooler overflow from the soaker or heating water that's made it's tour of the PEX and ready for the pond.

N8ly--- the 2000 gallon, natural looking, but concrete and big boulder soaking tub is just uphill from the pond and closer to the house. I'm now living my life's dream with a totally blank slate to begin with. I'm 16 months into the project and hoping to move in by December 1st. It seems impossible and may prove to be. Working alone with nothing but a back-hoe and 65 miles to HomeDepot is wearing a little thin. Getting the water running in the 500 foot, insulated pipeline was a big portion of the project because that gives me heat, water, and recreation. It's running!!

rainman-- You bring up a good point. Some hotsprings are lousy with sulfur. My last two places had sulfur in gas in solution and it would flash off leaving clean water, but this place has 21.4 sulfates and 53 chorides. The other elements are much less than other fish supporting hot springs I've seen, so I'm not worried about it.
As far as I know there are no fish in this water or any of the little, cool trickle springs on the property. Native vegetation is only cat-tail marsh grass and Russian Olive trees. The water has soaked back into the ground in about 3/8 of a mile. In one place a small pond has formed behind a long dam. It has some watercress and a few aquatic plants. That pond freezes in the winter, sometimes all the way to the bottom.
The springs water is constant in heat and flow and shows signs of being extremely stable over many thousands of years. There's possibly ten pounds of 'lime-type' minerals generally associated with hot springs per ton of soil on this place. As hot springs go, it's nearly 'non-mineral' water, but it shows its source in higher than 'normal' amounts of some easily soluble minerals. (I hope I said that right. Is there a place to post a jpg of the report?)

Maybe a better question is : Are there species that I should specifically stay away from for fear of polluting a reservoir three miles away? I'm afraid a walking catfish might cause a cowboy to swallow his snuff!

2catmom-- Hotsprings have a very special magic to them. The earth seems more alive where there's heat. All the cold desert's critters come here to get or stay warm in the winter-time and a lot of life's dramas of survival take place close up and semi-personal.

Google Earth lat=42.1742276339, lon=-113.860511297

My pond has stabilized in temperature at 74F in the deepest portion during a period of freezing nights and a foot of snow.

I planted a few (cheap) Tetras from Walmart and some hornwart bunches to test the waters, you might say. That was two weeks ago. The fish disappeared but the 'water weed' is growing well.
Yesterday I added a few black mollies and a bunch of (very) cheap feeder gold fish as further test. Immediately on introducing the new fish, most of the tetras came into sight. This morning many of the goldfish and several mollies were seen in the tumbleweeds and rocks near the bottom. Everyone seems to be happy.

Summer might be a problem until I can get some shade going for the water, but it looks like the water will support 'normal' life. Nymphs and springtails are in abundance, but the watermen are still dominant in the warmer parts of the pond.

HotSpud, your pond really is something special, good luck, and if you want shade to help cool it next year try building some artificial islands.