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#182744 - 09/09/09 08:57 PM Limestone vs. Granite for rock structure
FarmerCharlie Offline
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Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 132
Loc: Auburn, AL
The new pond is just about finished. Next week I hope to get lime spread and some rye grass planted to reduce erosion until we can do something more permanent in the spring.
Now I'm looking for ideas about rock structure. We have two local quarries--one with limestone and the other with granite. Are there any water chemistry reasons for selecting one or the other? I can get limestone rocks up to 6" to 12" or granite in various sizes up to small boulders.

Thanks,
Charlie

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#182753 - 09/09/09 09:44 PM Re: Limestone vs. Granite for rock structure [Re: FarmerCharlie]
ewest Offline
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Both are good. Limestone is very good for inverts (craws and shrimp etc) as they feed in the rocks on items that have absorbed some of the nutrients from the limestone. That is good for shell growth of the inverts. Cost may be a factor. Granite will last longer (limestone will last a long time but not as long). The structure thread has some ideas and more info.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463
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#182856 - 09/10/09 10:17 PM Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: ewest]
FarmerCharlie Offline
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Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 132
Loc: Auburn, AL
This may be a pretty crazy question: Tomorrow will probably be the last day of construction. Today the contractor dug up a huge old sweet gum stump that has been in my front yard. The tree had four large trunks, and the root ball is about 7 feet in diameter--with a lot of red clay stuck to it. It's going to be too big to load on a truck, and I'm trying to decide what to do with it. Is there any reason not to just get them to roll it into the pond, and let it sit there until it finally decays? The pond is about 8 feet deep.

If I don't put it there tomorrow while the equipment is here, it will probably sit in my front yard for the rest of my life. \:\)

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#182857 - 09/10/09 10:21 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: FarmerCharlie]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12394
Loc: Central Ohio
Forget "until it finally decays" - it will probably outlast all of use, underwater.

Consider it structure, if you leave it in. If there is plenty of clay stuck to it, it will hopefully stay sunken until it waterlogs.

Sweet gum is not a wood that anyone has reported problems (i.e. excess tannin) with here, IIRC, but let's see if there are any sweet gum structure owners with experience.
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#182937 - 09/11/09 10:35 AM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: Theo Gallus]
ewest Offline
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Push it in and stake it down. Great structure.
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#182975 - 09/11/09 12:44 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: ewest]
RC51 Offline
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Wow yeah I would think that would be sweet for cover!! Except easy to get snagged on. You might want to trim it up a little if it's REAL bushy on the top.
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#182982 - 09/11/09 01:14 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: RC51]
FarmerCharlie Offline
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Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 132
Loc: Auburn, AL
 Originally Posted By: RC51
Wow yeah I would think that would be sweet for cover!! Except easy to get snagged on. You might want to trim it up a little if it's REAL bushy on the top.

Here it is.

The four trunks (at the top right) were sticking out of the ground about 3 feet before we dug it up. As it sits in the picture it is 7'10" from the top to the ground. For scale Pete is a 60 lb border collie. If I could roll it to the deepest point, I estimate the top would be about 2 feet under the surface. Would it tend to sink on its own until it gets waterlogged?
And I'm not sure how much luck I would have in trimming it up or pushing it down. \:\)

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#182991 - 09/11/09 02:19 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: FarmerCharlie]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
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Loc: Central Ohio
Stake it down like ewest suggested. That's below the minimum dirt/tree ratio to sink IME.
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#182995 - 09/11/09 02:49 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: Theo Gallus]
jimmydee Offline
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 87
Loc: Missouri
As that clay begins to 'melt' away, your BG are gonna love you for droppin it in. That's an AWESOME BG condo.

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#182998 - 09/11/09 02:58 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: jimmydee]
Walt Foreman Offline
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Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 743
Loc: Columbia, TN
That thing is no condo - that's the BG Marriott with valets and three floors of penthouses.

One question that may very well fully display my ignorance of pond construction dynamics: could something that heavy potentially cause a leak, say if the pond bottom where it comes to rest has a thin layer of clay and less desirable soil underneath, and the multiple tons that thing has to weigh apply enough pressure to push through the clay?

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#183000 - 09/11/09 03:13 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: Walt Foreman]
bobad Offline
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Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Eunice, Louisiana
 Originally Posted By: Walt Foreman
could something that heavy potentially cause a leak


Unless the pond bottom is super fragile (in which case it will probably leak anyway), I think the chances are very remote.
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#183003 - 09/11/09 03:25 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: bobad]
RC51 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Wow that is DA BOMB!!! Chunk it in there baby and let the good fishing role!!!! That's a gauantee fish catcher right there! By the looks of it , it don't need to be trimmed up at all. It looks go to go. How are you getting this into your pond again? Give us a pic after you have it in place ok. I would like to see that.
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The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

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#183004 - 09/11/09 03:34 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: Walt Foreman]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
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Loc: Central Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Walt Foreman
One question that may very well fully display my ignorance of pond construction dynamics: could something that heavy potentially cause a leak, say if the pond bottom where it comes to rest has a thin layer of clay and less desirable soil underneath, and the multiple tons that thing has to weigh apply enough pressure to push through the clay?

You know, I don't think so, Walt. Big rootballs are real heavy, but close to neutral buoyancy once submerged. Even before that, they weigh less than a sheepsfoot roller or whatever else may have been used to compact the clay.
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#183015 - 09/11/09 05:03 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: Theo Gallus]
Walt Foreman Offline
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Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 743
Loc: Columbia, TN
Makes sense, Theo. I know one thing - the fish are gonna need reservations because that thing is gonna be swarmed.

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#183016 - 09/11/09 05:07 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: RC51]
FarmerCharlie Offline
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Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 132
Loc: Auburn, AL
 Originally Posted By: RC51
How are you getting this into your pond again? Give us a pic after you have it in place ok. I would like to see that.

Good question. They moved it about twenty feet by pushing it with the excavator. It has about thirty feet more to go to get to the pond. If we get it there, I don't think we will have much control where it goes. Just give it a push and hope for the best.

Edit: I found a site that gave me a formula to estimate the weight of a root ball. It comes to about 5 tons.


Edited by FarmerCharlie (09/11/09 06:24 PM)
Edit Reason: add weight of root ball

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#183516 - 09/14/09 05:25 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: RC51]
FarmerCharlie Offline
Lunker

Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 132
Loc: Auburn, AL
 Originally Posted By: RC51
How are you getting this into your pond again? Give us a pic after you have it in place ok. I would like to see that.

They rolled it in with the track hoe. I wish I had made a movie of the process, but here it is in what will have to be its final resting place:


Here is another view from the west side of the pond showing the root ball just past the underwater island. And no, it's not snowing in Alabama. The fertilizer truck came today and spread lime--just before the bottom dropped from the sky.


And finally, from the east side, with the underwater island behind it and the underwater peninsula behind and to the right. The green growies at the edge are some monkey grass we planted yesterday. I managed to get in a couple of passes with the disk harrow before the rain came. Next step is to finish disking and planting rye grass.


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#183550 - 09/14/09 08:45 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: FarmerCharlie]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
How do the banks look now after the rain? I like the different contour levels in the pond.
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#183567 - 09/14/09 09:46 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: esshup]
ewest Offline
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That is going to work great near the island.
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#183659 - 09/15/09 01:33 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: esshup]
FarmerCharlie Offline
Lunker

Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 132
Loc: Auburn, AL
 Originally Posted By: esshup
How do the banks look now after the rain? I like the different contour levels in the pond.

The snow-white surface is gone, but close examination shows that most of the lime is still there. I'll disk it in as soon as I get a couple days dry weather.

I like the contour too. Wish I had done more of it. And I wish I had saved some of the other root balls to put in the pond.

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#183687 - 09/15/09 04:39 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: FarmerCharlie]
jimmydee Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 87
Loc: Missouri
I sho nuff would be putting mucho structure in that good lookin hole in the ground. Fishies will love ya for it.

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#184126 - 09/20/09 09:15 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: jimmydee]
FarmerCharlie Offline
Lunker

Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 132
Loc: Auburn, AL
My wife's brother, Mike, and his wife, Judy, took a little flight over the place today and got some good photos. This shows an almost horizontal view of the pond after we got a lot of rain over the last few days. The small pond on the left is my neighbor's; it feeds from the same wet-weather stream that will be feeding mine. I hope those trees on his dam don't cause a problem. The dot in the center of the pond is the large sweet gum root ball the contractor rolled into the pond. The ellipse just above the root ball is the underwater island, which is already surrounded by water. The brown area at the top near the right side is the field that now contains most of the dirt excavated from the pond.


This is another view showing the pond and the house, barn, and shop to the right. This view also shows the underwater peninsula and 3-foot deep ledge above the island. The darker area directly opposite the island is the location of the pier and gazebo with a shallow wading area to the right.We will have a nice view of the pond and the wading area from the front porch.




I was amazed at the horizontal view they got. It looks like something from Google Maps. I guess Judy took it at about the same time I took this picture of them overhead.



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#184128 - 09/20/09 09:29 PM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: FarmerCharlie]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Great pics! That looks like a fun ride to boot!!!
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#185546 - 09/30/09 05:41 AM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: esshup]
otto Offline
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Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 1074
Loc: texas
Great pic! yes fun ride NO

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#185739 - 10/01/09 09:44 AM Re: Giant Sweet Gum Root Ball [Re: otto]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Awww Otto, where's your sense of adventure?
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