Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Help Help....I Suck At Fishing!

Hello everyone,

The bottom line is that my wife and I just started getting into fishing. We are "Newbies", and aren't real sure what the heck we are doing.

Here is a little background info:

We went fishing at Gull lake in the eastern sierras and had a blast. A lot of people laughed at us because we were using little kid collapsible poles with 8 pound test line.

I was using the 8 pound test line as the leader as well... Apparently fish can see it, and I bet they were laughing at me as well.

We went fishing at Gull Lake again 2 days later, and this time I did a little more research so that I wouldn't look quite as stupid (I'm sure I still looked like an idiot!)

We each purchased SPL 1102 5'0" ultralight ugly sticks, put some 4 pound test line on shimano fx1000 fb and fx 2500 fb reels, some 3 pound leader, and purchased a few size #18 treble hooks.

We ended up catching two fish that day, and we are pretty "hooked" now.


Now we are back home from our mammoth lakes vacation, and I have some questions that I can't seem to find the answers to.

We live in San Luis Obispo, Ca, in san luis obispo county

There are two lakes within 30 miles of our house for fresh water fishing.

Lopez Lake
http://www.slocountyparks.com/activities/lopez_fishing.htm

AND

Santa Margarita Lake
http://www.slocountyparks.com/activities/santa_margarita_fish.htm

The fish that inhabit these lakes are: LMB, Crappie, Bluegill, Redear, Catfish, and Rainbow Trout (Trout are only stocked during winter I believe.)

From what I have read, and understand, there is not a real consensus on what hook sizes to use on specific species of fish, let alone a general hook size to use on multiple species. Nightcrawlers seem to work on the species that inhabit the lakes in my area (I could be wrong, I'm a noob after all).


Here Are My Questions...

1) What bait or lures could I use on our ultralight setups that could work well for multiple species. What could I use on bluegill, trout, crappie, and bass. I know this is a shot in the dark, and that the answer is probably not as simple and straight forward as I would like.

The only bait we have used so far is Gulp Powerbait (Garlic and chunky cheese).

2) What size hooks should I use that would be able to land a wide variety of species. I am trying to keep things simple right now while I am learning. We used size 18 treble hooks, which are pretty small, and caught two trout on them.

The hooks might have been a little small, but I tried to use my misguided "newbie" logic in my reasoning that a small hook can catch both small fish and large fish, but a large hook won't catch small fish.

Also, I don't know if I want to use trebles anymore... It seems like they really tear up the fish. I had a hard time getting them out. I had to keep a small guy that I wanted to release because he was bleeding really bad.

I guess what I am asking is, is there a size hook I could use (like a #10, #12, #14, or whatever) with a specific bait (live or artificial) that may have success across multiple species that are in my area?


3) If I wanted to fish for cat fish (like a pound to 3 pounds? Nothing spectacular, but it would be nice to hook a large one) what pound test line should I use? Catfish, from what I understand, have poor eyesight, so I was thinking we might be able to get away with a thicker, stronger line.

My wife's Grandfather recently passed away, and we inherited what looks like maybe a decade old SP 1100 6'6 Medium Action Ugly Stik. The reel looks like the bearings are worn out, so I will have to replace the reel.

I was wondering if the pole is strong enough, what pound test line, size hook, and bait should I use?

4) We fish for trout with a small egg sinker on the main line, followed by a swivel, then a 2-4 foot leader. Would a similar setup work for catfish?

5) What kind of reel should I put on my wife's Grandfathers SP 1100 6'6 Medium Action Ugly Stik that might be appropriate (and cost effective) to get the job done?


Thank you all in advance for your help! I really do appreciate it.

Welcome to the Forum:
Everyone is getting ready for the big bash Pond Boss III Conference at Table Rock Lake in Missouri this Thursday, probably traveling now. This is a family of people who care about all things water, and they know their stuff. So if you don't get an answer right away, please understand you will.

Hello, Gflo.

There are many, many kinds of fishing and many, many different answers to your questions. Many of the approaches and answers are valid, obviously for different circumstances but also even for the same situations.

The best fisherman many of us (certainly I) have ever seen is Bruce Condello. I have seen Bruce outfish 5 other Moderators put together. It is more fun for me to watch Bruce fish than to fish myself. I will pass on to you one fishing technique which Bruce turned me onto, which I have found to work almost as well for lousy old me as it did for Bruce, which should work well with your ultralight rigs.

Tie a 1/16 or 1/32 ounce jighead directly onto the 4 lbs test line. Chartreuse is a good color, although others should work well too. Put a piece of nightcrawler about 1" long on the jighead. Cast out, and retrieve slowly, moving the rod tip back and forth so that the jighead & nightcrawler move toward shore in slight jerks, just off of the bottom.

You can catch just about any kind of fish this way.

Gflo:

This could be a long post! I'll try to keep it short. (yeah, right!) Regarding the rod/reels, there should be a line rating and lure weight sticker on the rod. i.e. 6-12lb 1/4-3/8 oz lure. On the reels, there is a line capacity as well, i.e., 4#-200 Yd, 6#-150 Yd, 8#-110 yd. There should also be a "action" type on the rod sticker where the line/lure weight is. slow, medium, fast, etc.
You should balance the reel to the rod - match line weights on both.

In short, the taper is mostly a personal preference although a Bass rod will be too fast of a taper for trout - when trout shake their head the hooks will tend to pull out - a slower or softer taper works better for targeting trout. A longer rod is easier to cast soft baits, light baits, but harder on you when fighting a bigger fish. A 50# tuna will kill you slowly when you hook one on an 8' or 10' jig stick, but you can get one in the boat very quickly if you hook one on a 5' bait rod. You can't cast very far with a 5' rod compared to a 10' rod tho!

Learn to tie good knots. I know that it's not the strongest knot, but I do a lot of fishing with line in the 2#-10# catagory and use the improved clinch knot a lot. Don't use snap swivels. Only use them if you are using an in-line spinner (such as a mepps spinner) and when you have to use one, use a good quality ball bearing one. Line twists are your enemy.

Make sure the drag is set properly, and is smooth. The drag should be set at the most at 25% of the breaking strength of the line. Lets use 8# line as an example. Take an empty milk jug. fill it with water so that it weighs 2#. Take it outside, along with your rod and reel. Tie the jug to the end of the line, make sure there is nothing overhead and try to lift the jug off the ground. You want to loosen/tighten the drag so the line is barely starting to come off the reel just as the jug just starts to get airborne. If you are using a lighter leader, use the lighter line for your 25% weight benchmark. Use good, fresh line. Line that stays in a coil when it comes off your reel is junk. If the line is over 2 years old, has been used a lot or has seen a lot of sunlight, toss it and re-spool. Go to the Triline site, Berkley they have some good knot and line tips. It's good line for freshwater use - I like the "limp" line for lightweight rigs. Try using flurocarbon fishing line for a leader, 3' - 4' long. Fish can't see fluro as easily as regular mono.

#16-#18 treble hooks for powerbait or Gulp is perfect. Get a set of hemostats or get 2, one straight and one curved. Try using them as is, or you might prefer to grind off the locking notches. They work really well for removing hooks you can't reach with your fingers. If the fish is hooked in the gills and bleeding bad, keep it, it'll most likely die when tossed back.

As for line weight, my preferences are (for fishing waters that don't have a lot of snags or weeds): Panfish (Bluegill/crappie) 2#-4#, Trout same or up to 6#, Catfish 8# heavier or lighter depending on the size of the cats, Bass, 6#-10# depending on the lures.

Hook size, this depends on what you are using for bait and the type of fish habitat. Crappie near brush, #4 or #6 Aberdeen. Bluegills with worms, Owner Mosquito hooks, from #10 to #6 depending on the size of the worm and the size of the BG. Largemouth Bass, #6 and larger, depending on the bait, Trout, see BG or what you are using for the Gulp/Power Bait. If you buy inexpensive hooks, learn how to sharpen them. I know they're expensive, but the Owner/Gamagatsu hooks catch more fish because they hook'em easier. That'a a plus if you are using light line as well. Owners are a bit softer tham the Gamu's. I've had the Gamu's break on me with larger fish when fishing in the ocean. I've never had that problem with the Owners. Eagle Claw hooks work perfectly fine, but they work better if you can sharpen them. Say, size #4 and larger.

A sliding sinker/barrel swivel and leader is a good trout set-up, and will work for catfish by going to larger hooks and heavier line. Liver, shrimp, worms, cut mackerel all work for catfish.

If you use bobbers, use the smallest one that will barely float the bait. The less resistance the fish feel when they grab the bait, the less chance they'll spit it out.

As for lures, I hope you have an extra garage to store them all in.

I've caught Bluegill (BG), Yellow Perch (YP), Redear (RES), Largemouth Bass (LMB), Black Crappie (BC) and other fish on the Rebel F76 Wee-Crawfish and the F77 Teeny Wee-Crawfish in Ditch Brown color. Rebel Wee-Craw I've caught Channel Catfish (CC), LMB, BG BC and YP on the 2"-5" long silver/black floating Rapalas. I have a blast catching panfish (BG, BC, YP) on Berkly Micro Nymphs fished on a 1/100 we unpainted jig head on #2 line, no weight. Tossed as far as I can toss 'em, slowly reel them in jiggling them to get some action from them. Lots of times I'll pause them and the fish will hit on the pause. Mammoth Lakes area streams - trout on #4 test, Woorden's Origional Rooster Tail, 1/16oz in bumblbee color worked great.

Sometimes lure color means everything. There are so many choices out there, it's almost like you need a tackle box for each type of fish, or at least each type of fishing you do. I don't know how many I have unless I go count them.

Talk to the people at the bait shops at the lakes you are fishing. They can give you some good tips on how to catch fish in those bodies of water (BOW). Take their advice with a grain of salt, remember they make their $$ by selling stuff, but also, if you don't catch fish, you probably won't be back either.

For trout and CC, (other fish too), keep foreign smells off your hands - don't go fishing right after you've spilled gas on your hands.

Others here will have good tips and hints. Don't fret, you've only opened Pandora's Box! Good luck on your next trip!

Hi Gflo.
My name is Brettski and I suck at fishing, too.
You are in good company....for the most part.
Welcome.

Hi Gflo. You've actually already discovered the most versatile bait for catching a wide variety of species - nightcrawlers. You could try the rig recommended by Theo, or you could go with a pure bait rig. One of the best fishing magazines that's ever been published, Fishing Facts (long defunct), featured as one of their two core techniques using nightcrawlers on light line with minimal terminal tackle, for many species of fish ranging from largemouth and smallmouth to bluegill to catfish to trout etc.

I second what you've already learned the hard way about treble hooks: never use them unless you're planning on keeping everything you catch, as they're brutal on fish. You'll get a better action from nightcrawlers with a single, light-wire (Aberdeen) hook, size 8 or 10; hook the nightcrawler only once, through the nose, so that it dangles freely and thus has more action. If you use four or six-pound test with a light or ultralight, soft-action (bends along more of its length when flexed) rod, you can cast a nightcrawler a good distance without any extra weight beyond the worm itself, and this is often far more effective than using even a small float; there's nothing whatsoever to tip the fish off. Let the nightcrawler sink on a slack line, watching your line closely, and when it starts to move, all that's required to set the light-wire hook with a soft-action rod is a gentle upward sweep of the rod. You'll have to let different species have the bait different lengths of time; for instance, a bluegill will take longer to swallow the bait than a bass; and, for bluegill, you might not use the entire worm at once unless the bluegill are very large or biting very aggressively. Trout, bass, catfish, bluegill, and many other species love nightcrawlers; they're the closest thing there is to a universal live bait. Fishing Facts had an entire book they used to sell called, "Nightcrawler Secrets."

One big advantage to Bruce's method is you'll probably hook fewer fish deep than you would with the above method. The pure bait rig will probably work better for you on days when the fish are not biting well.

Brettski, I can fix that! It'll take about 1/4 of the time you're spending on the garage/apartment.....

1/4 the time to improve, 4x once mastered.

Hi Gflo,welcome aboard.You'll get great advice here,albeit slow this week do to the convention this weekend in Branson,Mo.That said,all good advice in above answers,but,if you want fish,carefully check out the area,and use dynamite.

P.S. The state of California does NOT approve of this,so keep a sharp eye out.
P.S.S. I give lessons on Thursdays from 3-7. :DHowever,you have to scape your own fish off the boat/bank.

Gflo, I'm also very new to fishing and currently suck at it too. But I'd like to think I'm getting better. We catch fish now anyway. With that in mind, certainly take others' advice over mine, but I will tell you what I've done this past year to get myself, my boy and his friends onto some fish.

First of all, check fishing reports if you're fishing public waters. You'll have a better idea of what fish to target at those 2 lakes you mentioned and, possibly, where to set up on the bank too. We've had a great time the past couple weeks at a few different lakes targeting catfish, bluegill, and bass using very simple set ups. For your cats and BG, I used nightcrawlers. For the cats, I let it sit on the bottom and kept a finger on the string. When I felt it I set the hook. For the BG I used a small jighead and half a nightcrawler and a very small bobber. They seemed to eat the worm more often than not and this is likely my inexperience in putting the worm on a hook properly. LMB we targeted and I've had success using a variety of things, especially this time of year when they fattening themselves up for winter (Nebraska). I don't own a boat so I walk a lot of bank and find points and jetties to fish off of and go for a variety of angles. The most success I've had this year is with spinnerbaits. They're really easy to use so I've gravitated towards them to get the kids some bass and it doesn't seem to matter the size. We were all using large spinnerbaits and kept landing smallish, 10-13", bass the other day, but the kids didn't care because we caught a ton of them and they just liked catching fish. I didn't care either since I'm still learning. But those are my experiences, from one beginner to another. Good luck and I'll be following this thread to get some tips as well.

WoW!

This is all good stuff keep it coming. I am thankful for the replies I've gotten so far.

I went ahead and purchased a few Blue Fox Super Vibrax Spinners from Cabelas. Went with the 001 silver/silver and 002 gold in size 1 (1/8th ounce).

I read all 100 reviews and people have been catching trout, bass, crappie, and some monster bluegill on them.

Decided to go with the smaller size. Fishing with a lure seems really fun.

When fishing with a lure, do I just use a swivel, put it at the end of the leader, and cast it. Then reel it in slowly?

It seems pretty simple and fun, and casting a lot will give me a little more experience, and hopefully I'll learn to not spin myself a birds nest.

I think I might even dip the spinners in garlic scented YUM fish attractant to make sure my smell isn't on there.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templa...rset=ISO-8859-1


Theo,

I find Bruce's method to be pretty attractive. I am definitely going to try that out!

Esshup,

Thank you for the gear recommendations. I am going to have to research this "drag" thing and figure out how to set it as you have specified.

I am going to take your advice, and Omaha's advice on cat fishing.

I'm going to go with a little heavier weight, and a stronger line with the 2-4ish foot leader using Nightcrawler's and some YUM fish attractant (Garlic).


I have Another Question
Have any of you used superlines? Like Power Line Pro?

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templa...0395&id=0011779

I was thinking about buying around 300 yards of the 15lb test that has the equivalent diameter of the 4lb test to suit up both my wife and I's shimano fx 1000 and shimano fx 2500 reels.

http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/spinning/FX_FB.html

It seems like it is a good product, and if it is just as thin the 4 pound mono-filament we are using now, then it seems like it would be a nice upgrade.

I don't want my wife to become frustrated with fish breaking the line too often, and I wouldn't mind the added strength myself. Especially if we don't know whether a trout, or a bass is going to hit the line.

We are both using the 5'0" ultralight ugly stiks. Maybe its not the brightest idea in the world (The pole says 2-6 pound line).

What do you guys think? Is this Power Line Stuff a good product?

Per Condello's recommendation, I am currently using 4 lbs Trilene on my ultralight. But I understand there are definite advantages to the more advanced lines (flouro, braided, etc.) which I am sure you will get to hear about shortly.

P.S. You're asking a bunch of chubby kids what they like best about the candy store!

Well that's good then. I figure the chubby kids know what candy tastes best.

Haha, funny. Gflo, a couple things, again from a fellow beginner. First, you're going to get birds nests. Plenty. Get good at getting them straightened out. I got myself a baitcaster over the winter and love it, but the first couple months of practicing nonstop I was constantly, nearly every cast, pulling line out. Just a part of learning. Oh, and my kid picked it up once and let it go and that was a really big mess. But, you're right, the cast and retrieval of a lure is great practice and great fun. A lot more exciting than sitting and watching a bobber. One more thing, in regards to catfish, a method we've used in the past is chicken liver wrapped in pantyhose. Keeps it on the hook easier. I haven't been catfishing in a while, but have had great success with that method in the past.

I'm using a braided line for the first time in my MH baitcaster and I love it. My casts are further and so much smoother and so much easier to unravel when I get the occasional birds nest.

I have posted before about my love of braided lines but would advise you to spool your lines with fluorocarbon to start. The braided line has NO stretch and can wind around the tip of your rod quite easily.
As for the birds nests on a baitcasting reel I have a tip. There will be a small usually silver knob on the side of your reel. You tighten and loosen it depending on the weight of the lure you are casting. When you open the bail to let line out the bait should slowly fall to the ground. If it falls too fast, tighten the knob. Do not confuse this knob with the drag adjustment.
Also a big help is to get used to thumbing the line just before it hits the water. This will avoid the backlash and straighten out your line to properly present your lure without tangling that end up either. I hope that I explained that properly and if you have any other questions please feel free to PM me...

I went and read the thread where people were talking about mono vs powerline and the #100 lb fluorocarbon leader. Interesting stuff.

Good practical advice from all. I wouldn't mess with a bait caster until you get a little further.

Lures are great and highly addictive. I recently consolidated some tackle boxes and got down to about 12. That goes along with my unknown number of rods and reels.

Live bait is a lot more effective for both newbies and experienced anglers. The guys on TV use lures because lure companies sponsor TV shows. Minnows and worms easily outfish metal and plastic. However, lures let you cover more water and spook more fish.

Get a good spin cast reel with about 8 lb. mono, tie directly to the hook, put on a really small bobber and enjoy yourself. Unless absolutely necessary, I try to not use a weight. Keep it simple.

I only use leaders for fly fishing and really toothy critters. A couple of weeks ago, I used the Condello rig and caught a huge number of bluegills, an 8 pound channel cat and 2 bass.

Once you've mastered a little bit of this stuff, see your banker about an equipment loan.

DD1:

Try this trick. Use weight with the bobber, and use enough weight so the bobber just barely floats. Try putting the weight as close to the bobber as possible. I'll even use the tiny ice fishing floats on my UL spinning rig, with a small split shot directly under the bobber. Hook tied directly to the 2# test.

My nephew did that with either 4# or 6# test line, I forget exactly what poundage it was. A common carp took the bait and after a 20 minute battle we netted the carp. He couldn't believe he got it in. I told him that as long as the line doesn't get hung up on anything, and the drag set properly, you can fight a fish for a LONG time to get it in without breaking the line. The key is to have patience! (and a smooth drag)

I've got 2 rods set-up for steelhead fishing in the St. Joe River. They're spooled with one of the super braids, but they have a 4' fluro leader. The superbraid allows me great sensitivity, along with excellent abrasion resistance. The fluro leader makes the line pretty invisible to the steelies.

Why would you use the weights just under the bobber? What does that accomplish for you?

I can neither see nor tie 2 pound test. Even 4# tries my patience when tying.

Now I see a reason for a leader. That's neat.

My approach is to carefully observe natural fish food and prey. Try to simulate it as closely as possible. The fishing tackle should be as natural and/or invisible as possible, within practical limits.

Even though you do the above with great care, you're still not guaranteed success. Fish are smart, and bite pretty much when they feel like it.

DD1:

I put the weight under the bobber to make the bobber easier to pull under the water by the fish, and it gives me a little bit more weight to cast with. Also, by putting it there, I end up with less tangles when I cast out and the maggot falls thru the water column more naturally than if drug down by a weight. Size 10 hook, one maggot on the hook, the bobber is made of stryofoam and is maybe 5/8" dia and 3/4" to 1" tall. The bobber either has a slit in the side or just a hole drilled thru the center. The line is held in place by jambing in a small piece of wood about the size of 1/3 of a round toothpick. I can cast that combo about 60 feet with the small split shot under the bobber, 40 feet without it.

I'll also use a Berkly Micro nymph on a 1/100 oz. lead jig head - no weight or bobber. Casting it with anything heavier than 4# test is futile, 2# is better.

Thanks again everyone for all your suggestions and advice.

I really am taking notes on all of this. I've set the drag correctly using the milk jug method (wife took pictures... She thinks I'm insane...).

Now I just need to find a solid spin cast reel for my wife's Ladies' ugly stick.

I was hoping to purchase it on cabelas.com, but am not sure which one to go with.

I think I am going to go with an 8lb test braided line (Powerline) using a 12lb test mono backing.

Figure I can use that same 12lb test to spool the catfishing rod as well. We only have channel cats around here, so hopefully it will be sufficient.

Would have gone with a heavier test line than 12 if I thought it wouldn't hinder the performance of any of the spincast reels (using it as a backing to the 8lb braided line).

The 12# will be more than enough, you could probably drop down to 10# unless the cats are over 15#. I caught a 14.8# CC on a floating Rapala in my pond on 6# test, but it took about 10 minutes to get it in, and there are very few obstructions in the pond where the line can get tangled. The superbraid will allow you to cast further with heavier line. It doesn't like to be tied to mono, but if you search the internet there are knots that work really well tying braid to mono. I'm pretty sure the Uni Knot is one of them.

Since you did the milk jug thing, now imagine how tiring it would be to fight a fish when using 25# of drag pressure!!

Gflo:

When you say spin cast reel, do you mean the type that has a push button on the back that is used with the reel on top of the rod, or the type where you manually open the bail, hold the line with your finger and is used hanging under the rod? To me, a spin cast reel is the push button type, a spinning reel hangs under the rod.

I gotta run, but if you mean spinning reel, i'll have a suggestion when I get back later today. What line weight is that ugly stick rated for?

Hey,

by spincast reel I mean something like this.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templa...rset=ISO-8859-1

I have three rods total right now.

Two of them are spinning reels that require manually opening the bail.

I am looking to buy one of the spincast ones for my wife (like that zebco omega one).

As far as the ugly stik rating. It is an ultralight 5'0 rod. I believe it is 2-6 lb rated.