Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Adding Blue Cats to Existing pond. Numbers?

Looking at adding some catfish in two existing ponds around 6-7 acres each.

"""I deleted Pond 1 information because I want to concetrate on pond 2 and want to keep things less confusing""""

Pond 2: Around 6 acres, deep like Pond 1. Flooded timber throughout the lake. Existing bass heavy, BG, Big GSF, and established Crappie population of all sizes.
Goal: Big catfish pond. I'll probably take out a bunch of bass and harvest some large crappie and GSF. Add CNBG 250/acre next fall. May or may not fertilize, no feeding program.



I'd like to get some ideas on Stocking Numbers for adding Blue Cats and Channels to pond 2 with the goal taken into consideration. I will go 75% Blues and 25% channels. I will be buying fish in the 10-12" size (largest I can get.) I am liking the blues just because of their size capability.

My little experience was I stocked 75 10-12" blues in a 1 acre pond last OCT. Drained the pond in Feb this year and only found around 50. something like a 65-70% survival rate at stocking I guess. Kind of weird but eitherway Im going to take this into consideration also.

I was thinking maybe 25-50 total cats per acre in pond 2.

I'd like to hear some advice and success stories please.

Thanks everyone

Here's some threads for you to peruse (you've probably read these already):

Thread stocking blue cats vs channel cats

Regarding Bluecatfish - has a couple of comments from Bob Lusk

2003 Thread about growth rates of Blue Cats, even has a comment from Mark McDonald (first one I've ever seen).

Thanks Jeff, yes I read some of those.

Lets just work on Pond 2, for the start. I may see how it turns out along with pond 1 and its goal without adding the catfish in pond 1 at all. I don't need to get to many things going at once.

I am for sure putting the catfish in Pond 2 and the Goal remains the same. It may be better that it has lots of crappie actually. They will be a huge forage producer for the Blues along with the BG.

These blue cats are the closest thing to sharks that we can stock in a pond. I think the forum is scared they might get bit or eaten.

Maybe so Todd!

Maybe I could take out all bass i catch and try to make the Blue cats the primary predator. Eventually I'd think the blues would start using the bass as forage.

If I keep the bass numbers down and forage high for long enough to get some big Blues then they would take care of the bass population a little by themself.

I don't know how big the Blues would get "Realistically" speaking in a 6-7 acre pond?


Todd, have any ideas. I know you Ain't scared!

Chad,

No I ain't scared!! Since when should we shy away from growing truly big fish in our ponds? Since when is it taboo for one fish to eat another? The pond world should not revolve around a largemouth bass, IMO.

It may not be necessary to remove bass in order to allow for blue cat growth, but it would indeed free up a lot of forage. Keep in mind that potential max growth for blue cats in a pond depends a lot on stocking density and available forage. Once the blues reach the 4-5lb mark then they should accelerate quickly on live forage, in the meantime it will help a lot to supplement them with fish food. If natural foods are plentiful then they may not feed actively on pelleted foods...they will let you know. We have sampled 30# fish in a 1/4 acre and up to 48# in a 50 acre lake.

Let me know when you are ready to pull the trigger...!!

What do you have in mind for stocking numbers?

What do you think about the crappie?

I don't know if I'd have much success with supplemental feeds being that it has so much surface acreage. seems like they would naturally spread out over the 6-7...

30 lber in a 1/4 acre... Wow... I missread that the first time around. How did that happen?

Here is a good article about blue catfish in the James River in Virginia. Blue Catfish Now James River's Biggest Predator

I don't know much about blue catfish, but I would think you could grow some pretty big ones in your pond. I don't think you would have to remove the bass. My guess is that in a few years the growth of the blue catfish would be at the expense of all the other fish in the pond. Depending on your desires, that could be real good.

Until the big catfish have eaten themselves out of forage, you'd sure have some pretty impressive bragging rights. Then, you could start all over again with whatever fish you wanted, and it would have been a lot more fun than putting rotenone in the pond.

If I had an extra pond or two, I would consider it as a fun adventure.

Blue cats were accidentally introduced into the Potomac River back in the 80's or so... They didn't make much of a showing until about 10 years ago. They break the Maryland state record about every other year with them now. Many biologists think they will break the 100 pound mark in another 5-10 years. If you fish the correct bait in the right spots, it's not uncommon to put together a 300 pound catfish day with many running 15-30 pounds. My biggest so far has been 48 pounds.

They are brutes and glutinous! I would think if you are truly focusing on blue cats, once you get fish in the 10 pound class, stocking gizzard shad would be the only option to keep them fed... Gizzard shad is one of the best baits on the Potomac. The fresher the better! Eels, spot and alewife also make great baits. In colder temps say under 55 degrees I like cut bait, but over 55 degrees, I like live shad over dead shad. In the winter, if you can find schools of shad, the stripers will be hammering them from the mid to upper water column with the blue cats cleaning up the mess on the bottom. Sometimes you even get blue cats coming up to take wacks at shad in more middle water column areas, particularly in colder weather.

I think a blue cat/HSB pond with gizzard shad as the forage could be a very fun pond!

Sounds like a plan. Gizzard shad would probably be the ultimate push in forage. I'll have to ponder that a bit. Maybe Todd has some experience there to know how they would work in my neck of the woods.

Im thinking maybe instead of stocking the full projected amount at once that I should break it down and stock a portion on 10-12" Blues over the next five years.. Seems like it would be less of a shock on the system, and give a wide range of sizes vs. a bunch of the same weight class which might hammer the forage pretty hard.

Sounds like fun.

I think one of those links above has a comment from Mr. Lusk saying that one of the Blues had a 3# LMB in it's gut. From my observations on what Gizzards do in a BOW, I don't think I'd stock them until the Blues were of a size that they could eat a 12"-14" gizzard.

The DNR stocked Blues in the local lake quite a number of years ago and IIRC, the last one that I remember being caught was about 20 years ago on a crankbait while fishing for LMB.

Yes, that's why I would wait until at least your first batch of blue cats were in the 10 pound range. By then they should really be able to keep a hurting in the gizzard shad. I think spreading out the stocking numbers over a 5 year period would be a great idea... If you plan to stock 250, stock 50 each year. What a cool fishery IMO. Blue cats and HSB!

CJBS that is an extremely sound recommendation, IMO.

On top of that, manage the aquatic vegetation in these ponds and allow them to take a natural course of plankton abundance/certain degree of turbidity and stock threadfin/gizzard/tilapia and you are on the road to monsters. Blue cats don't perform well in crystal clear vegetated waters common to your area, Chad. If the ponds are already plankton abundant and/or muddy then once you get some shad started then you absolutely consider adding HSBs. Along with some good coppernose to help diversify, you'll likely grow some serious fish. The most difficult part of this plan in your area is to control aquatic vegetation. Rich soils in your area promote hard water super clear and vegetated/productive ponds. Help to direct sunlight resources to plankton instead of aquatic vegetation and you have tremendous natural production potential, even without a pelleted supplement.

Then get yourself a TFO mini-mag flyrod and a Glazener spinster and hang on tight......

I've mentioned this before, but take productive water, direct your resources, and be successful,.. by managing for baitfish with tremendous reproductive potential AND predators that DO NOT. Then you have the ability to bump up predators numbers with a regular stocking ladder and help maintain the predator population in balance with the baitfish and growing steady. You have more control when the need for management means stocking a few predators, as opposed to harvest of predators...

Examples of predators that fit this model down south:
hybrid stripers
channel and/or blue catfish
rainbow trout (bait/sport)

Baitfish:
shad, threadfin/gizzard
tilapia
bluegill

P.S. and for small ponds possibly forget threadfins and stock shiners. this option also opens up crappie discussion for small ponds, because they also prefer a shad diet and would have a pop control with this predator regime.

Now that would be icing on the cake... HSB, Blue cats and crappie! Who's got a spare pond to give it a try???

I agree Todd, ponds under 2 or 3 acres would probably be better suited to sticking with GSH.

Well, looks like I have my work cut out for me here.

I went fishing at this lake today. I haven't personally fished here in years as we have other lakes I normally go to.

One the plus side, there is more timber in the lake than I expected. There is a submerged tree about every 10 yards under the water. Excellent structure.

Catch: not so good news

17 bass 12-15" not terribly skinny but typical bass heavy.
7 Green Sunfish/Hybrid Bluegill.

I fished with a few different baits. My brother stuck with a small cricket and did most of the damage. With him using that cricket I expected to see him pulling in BG right and left... Didn't catch one. The BG may be there, after all I don't see how anything could be thriving without them, but that sure is a BAD SIGN to not catch one on this trip.

I was planing on growing some CNBG for my other ponds next year, looks like I may have to set aside 2 CNBG growing ponds to cover what I need instead of just 1.

I think I'll start with taking out ALL bass and ALL Green sunfish and ALL crappie for the remainder of the season. Probably go ahead and drop in a few Blues this fall but concentrate on boosting the forage next year big time. If there is little to no BG I don't have a leg to stand on any way you look at it so I figure I need to take drastic steps in correcting this.

I'm gonna be fishing this pond heavily for the next month. I'll keep everyone posted on what I catch. Probably head out again before this week is over.