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Joined: Apr 2004
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Definetly a hybrid. PS x catfish. The whiskers give it away. I'm supprised you guys didn't notice that. My wife saw the picture and asked about the whiskers. She was serious.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
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Definetly a hybrid. PS x catfish. The whiskers give it away. I'm supprised you guys didn't notice that.
How would PS do with SMB & RES? Other than northern climes where RES cannot survive... From what I have read, RES tend to out compete PS. I have seen them all in the same body of water. If I recall correctly, RES tend to push PS to different food sources.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Lunker
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Lunker
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I think we will have a better idea after Dr. Willis' talk at PB Con III.
Those of you who can't make it to Big Cedar Lodge need to clamor for him to turn it into a PBMag article ASAP. I could prob. swing it & would really very very much like to be at the conference but I'm in a circle the wagons mode with things tightening up & an uncertain future. Pleading to Dr Dave .... Do the article!!!!!! I would truly love see Big Cedar & meet all you guys.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military! Ric
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Lunker
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Lunker
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CJ, I know RES tend to occupy deeper water than BG, in relation to RES where in the water colum is PS? What other food sources would PS turn to?
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military! Ric
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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With no BG in the pond there should be enough food for both PS and RES. The PS will be dominated by the RES but should be ok as they will take on the place of the BG. The PS will out reproduce the RES. I would be more concerned that with just SMB that the PS will produce to many offspring and may stunt.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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So IMO the question of "How do you know if its pure, did you have the genetics checked " on a lepomis hybrid is irrelevent. I bet not one person on this Forum has ever had or seen lepomis genes checked with Dave Willis being a possible exception. Now Green Carp (LMB) are a different matter. Actually Eric there was a PHD at Illinois Natural History that was studying pumpkinseed bluegill hybrids in Canada. From my understanding he had the DNA for both hybrids and pure pumpkinseeds. I know this because I took in to mount a potential world record pumpkinseed or pumpkinseed hybrid. (It weighed 1 lb. 6 oz.) The problem was, (I apologize if I posted this already on the site) it got complicated when I took it to a local biologist station to have it identified. One biologist came in late to work and said, "Hybrid!" from 20 feet away and refused to even look at it. The other was more conscientous and took the time to key it out down to the gillrakers. He believed it was a pure pumpkinseed even though it did not have the red tip to the ear tab. It was a dead ringer for a pumpkinseed, but just did not have the red tip to the ear tab. Anyway, I was left with the dilemna that it now needed to be checked via DNA as these two biologists did not agree. The PHD at Illinois Natural History offered to check the DNA and but then apparently backed out when I wanted to arrange shipment of part of the carcass. That is, he wouldn't answer his emails and wouldn't return my calls. So to this day we have no idea if it's a world record hybrid pumpkinseed (IGFA said they would make a category if it was), or it tied the world record as a pure pumpkinseed. My state does not even have a state record category for a pumpkinseed. I'm still miffed at the arrogant biologist that refused to even look at it.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 09/08/09 07:01 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Cecil there are some studies out there and genetic testing done (not full genome but some markers) on some lepomis including PS and a little on hybrids. Most done by PhD's in genetics. Very uncommon in normal fisheries biologists not to mention pond owners.
Interesting you note that even on a potential world record the guy did not do the DNA testing. It is not cheap to have done nor easy to find people trained and willing to do the work. There is really no reason to have them tested as morphological traits will give good answers. I will try to find the results from a study that used jaw bone length to pect. fin length which was IIRC cross checked by DNA and found to have a very high degree of accuracy. Gill rakers are so-so as BG and PS gill rakers are similar.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Lunker
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The PS will be dominated by the RES but should be ok as they will take on the place of the BG. The PS will out reproduce the RES. I would be more concerned that with just SMB that the PS will produce to many offspring and may stunt. Thanks ewest, thats the insight I needed. It would be neat to have PS but I think YP will be a better forage for the SMB. If I can find a reliable source for YP.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military! Ric
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