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I'm taking a course from Oregon State University. I'm writing a paper about the renovation of a local lake. This lake is in Kentucky, it is 52 acres, has a maximum depth of 35 feet. In the 1990s, the Fish and Wildlife department eradicated all the shad from the lake. In my paper, I am trying to come up with a forage fish that bass, crappie, bluegill, and catfish will feed on. I think a type of Chub would be sufficient, but are there any chubs that can breed in warm, shallow lakes with very little current? If not, what about a livebearing fish like the killifish?

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I know that you guys are experts in the area of fish ecology. Would any of you care to pick apart my short paper, and point out any glaring errors? I had to keep it to one page (ugh), but are my points valid and sound?

 Quote:
McNeely Lake, at 52 acres, is the largest lake in the city of Louisville. As part of a larger park system, it provides local residents with fishing, boating, and hiking opportunities. However, the lake itself has been plagued by many problems in the last decade. Overfishing, algae overgrowth, loss of certain fish species, and lack of spawning habitat, have all taken their tolls on this lake. By addressing these problems in a scientific manner, I believe that this lake can be restored to the excellent fishery that it used to be.

Simply due to the fact that this lake is located next to such a major population center, the amount of anglers that take fish from this lake puts an extreme amount of pressure on it. The commonly held belief is that if only fish larger than a certain size are taken, that smaller fish will be allowed to grow to a harvestable size. But this train of thought is changing. A 2008 study by the University of Toronto showed that by releasing larger fish, the amount of fish a lake is able to produce is increased. Not only do larger fish spawn more successfully and in larger broods, but the selective pressure on smaller fish helps the lake to keep producing larger and larger fish.

In the spring and summer, McNeely becomes inundated with both filamentous and blue-green algae (Cyanobacteria). Not only does this make fishing difficult, it does not provide a food source for the fish, it makes the lake unsightly, and causes oxygen depletion. By making use of native aquatic plants, such as Elodea canadensis (American Waterweed) and Nymphaea odorata (Water Lily), both the nutrients that the algae require, and the sunlight penetrating the water, will be reduced. Subsequently, the massive algae blooms will be reduced. Both these plants also provide excellent habitat for numerous types of aquatic invertebrates, which in turn act as forage for juvenile fish.

As I have fished McNeely since the late 80's, I have noticed an unfortunate drop in the species of fish to be caught. Fish such as the Bullhead catfish, Warmouth bass, and even White crappie are rare to nonexistent. A reintroduction of these fish in numbers large enough for sustainable populations should be considered. One of the possible reasons for the decline of these fish, besides overfishing, is lack of suitable prey items. A controversial eradication of the lake's shad population in the 90's corresponded (but may or may not have caused) with the decline of these three species. In any case, providing the lake with artificial spawning habitats for the prey of these fish would undoubtedly benefit the populations. Introduction of forage fish should be considered. A native Cyprinid , such as the fathead minnow (Pimephales promelas ), would be an excellent candidate. As would the Golden shiner (Notemigonus crysoleucas ). Both are tolerant of warm, turbid waters, and reproduce in large numbers.

McNeely has a fair amount of spawning habitat for its game fish, but it could be greatly improved. For prized fish such as the largemouth bass, which prefer to make circular nests in gravel or sand in one to four feet of water, artificial nesting sites could be created. Simply the addition of gravel or sand to certain areas of the lake (corresponding with the above requirements) would be of great benefit. White crappie would certainly make use of the American Waterweed, as they lay their eggs on aquatic plants. Bullhead catfish breed in a similar fashion, requiring aquatic plants. Warmouths' are a little pickier, requiring a submerged structure in which to build a circular nest similar to the Largemouth bass. But with better spawning habitat comes a more successful fishery.

By the addition of native plants to combat algae, the introduction of viable forage fish, the enhancement of habitat, and the reintroduction of extirpated fish species, I believe that McNeely Lake could be restored to the excellent recreational fishery that it once was.



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Give us a little time to read your piece.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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For the most part, the paper looks good. Let me point out a couple minor errors.

"White crappie would certainly make use of the American Waterweed, as they lay their eggs on aquatic plants." -White crappies are actually substrate nesters with the males guarding the nest. They do not scatter their eggs on vegetation like many other species do, such as the golden shiner. They are like the largemouth bass and warmouth you mentioned.

"Bullhead catfish breed in a similar fashion, requiring aquatic plants." -Bullhead catfish dig out crevice nests, usually under a log or rock and lays their eggs in that crevice.

A couple things I am not so sure about...

"One of the possible reasons for the decline of these fish, besides overfishing, is lack of suitable prey items. A controversial eradication of the lake's shad population in the 90's corresponded (but may or may not have caused) with the decline of these three species." -All three species mentioned, white crappie, bullhead and warmouth are usually not desirable species in a medium sized lake. So their decline may in fact be a good thing.

"A 2008 study by the University of Toronto showed that by releasing larger fish, the amount of fish a lake is able to produce is increased. Not only do larger fish spawn more successfully and in larger broods, but the selective pressure on smaller fish helps the lake to keep producing larger and larger fish." -I am not sure this study pertains to McNeely Lake. I think the biggest issue this lake is facing is heavy pressure on its fish by angling due to its proximity to a large population area. Slot limits are probably the best method to use to allow some fish to reach trophy size but to limit stockpiling of fish just below the legal size limit which often occurs with a simple size limit. Fertilization of the lake should also be undertaken to allow a larger biomass of fish in the lake. Many of the public fishing lakes in my area are fertilized by our Fish and Game agency because of the high fishing pressure our lakes receive because of our proximity to high population areas.

In most public fishing lakes, the addition of numerous forage species other than Lepomis (ie, bluegill, redear sunfish, etc) is not needed. Bass can grow to quality sizes in lakes where shad and other non Lepomis forage species are not present or low in numbers. As is the case with McNeely Lake, the bass feed mostly on bluegill and crayfish.

From reading about the lake, it appears that McNeely Lake has a fairly rocky substrate with some stump fields. If there was a desire to add alternative non-Lepomis species as forage. Based on the limited information I was able to gather about the lake on-line, these would be my recommendation:

Golden Shiner
Spotfin Shiner
Spottail Shiner
Bluntnose minnow
Banded Killifish

These species compete with bluegill and other sunfish species much less(the reason the shad were originally removed from the lake), all are adapted to medium sized lakes with a rocky substrate and can tolerate moderate predation from predatory fish.

Hope this helps...

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Great input. I'll change the breeding data before I turn it in. The sources from which I got the breeding info were generic sites.

The lake itself has a substrate of mainly organic sediment (mud). As for fertilization, would that exaggerate the algae and cyanobacteria problem? The lake looks pretty awful in the spring and summer.

The lake does have both bluegill and longear sunfish. The F&W dept did a study on it one year, and there is a 10 to 1 ratio of bluegill to longear sunfish.

In practice, are there any advantages to having multiple types of forage fish? I know hypothetically this would allow one baitfish to relieve the pressure from another baitfish once its populations got low. But does that really work?

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It appears to me that the weed/algae infestation is a contributing factor to poor fishing and WR. The predators just have too much trouble getting a meal.

I think it would help to put a limit on keeping larger lmb. In the August issue of PB mag, Cody posts charts showing fecundity/recruitment of smallmouth and largemouth bass.

On lmb size and average number of eggs:

11"-12" 8,000
13"-14" 17,000
15"-17" 25,000
17"-18" 56,000

I like the idea of multiple types of forage. For larger impoundments such as a city lake, I like threadfin shad for open water and all of the BG I can get for skinny water. However, the TFS feed on plankton and don't do very well around here in muddy water. I'm unfamiliar with Kentucky forage bases but do believe in utilizing open, non shoreline, water when possible. In smaller water holes, fathead minnows are eradicated within the first year of stocking. Not sure about lakes. Gambusia(mosquito fish) seem to hold their own under predation but they don't provide the size for anything but smaller fish.

One of the angles that you might cover is that, for lmb to thrive, they need prey that is 1/4 to 1/3 their body size. They also need 10 pounds of forage to gain one pound of weight. So, to grow large predators, always concentrate on growing plentiful forage that doesn't expend too much energy vs. calories obtained.

BTW, there are no experts here on fish ecology. Like you, just a bunch of students that are continually learning. Beware of experts.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 08/17/09 06:51 AM.

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I'm certainly no expert, and it may be different in your neck of the woods, but my experience with Elodea is that it can get out of control very quickly. I certainly would not add it to any body of water. It spreads like wild fire, and will grow in fairly deep water. It'll take over entire areas in no time. Compared to other pond plants it will grow in fairly deep water so it does not stay neatly contained to a shore line. It can make both boating and fishing very difficult.

But that's just my opinion. Wait for confirmation from an expert. Plus I freely admit that I hate Elodea with extreme prejudice.


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I'm a little biased here since I sell them, but I think Blue Tilapia would be a great answer to your forage, weed, and especially the blue/green and Filamentous algae problems.

The addition of Blue Tilapia would provide plenty of forage for all predators mentioned PLUS be a forage for small predators such as Bluegill. If your lake has nice sized Catfish in the 10+ pound range, you would most likely never see a dead tilapia in the fall. Every fish except the tilapia would go into winter much healthier for the following spring spawns.



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Pssssssst..... Rainman, check your pm's.


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 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
I'm certainly no expert, and it may be different in your neck of the woods, but my experience with Elodea is that it can get out of control very quickly. I certainly would not add it to any body of water. It spreads like wild fire, and will grow in fairly deep water. It'll take over entire areas in no time. Compared to other pond plants it will grow in fairly deep water so it does not stay neatly contained to a shore line. It can make both boating and fishing very difficult.

But that's just my opinion. Wait for confirmation from an expert. Plus I freely admit that I hate Elodea with extreme prejudice.


JHAP - this counts as a good post don't you agree?


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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I second that...

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Yep, add 1.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I'm against non-native fish in the U.S.

I too have seen lakes overtaken with elodea. But they were very small, 10 acres or less. I think a 52 acre lake would be able to cope with the plant.

Now I can't be sure that it was elodea, but I was scuba diving in Dale Hollow Lake in Tennessee, and it was supporting a tremendous amount of fish. I saw largemouth bass, bluegill, crappie, and other smaller fish just hovering above the plant in about 20 feet of water.

Can anyone give me any recommendations on how to improve bass, crappie,baitfish (fathead minnow and golden shiner) and catfish spawning habitats?

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Being against non-native fish is fine. Many of the most popular fish are non-natives. They,ve just been around so long they are thought to be native. I was merely making a suggestion that would solve all of your problems and help reach all of your stated goals in one, fun to catch species.

I beleive Kentucky stocks many public lakes with tilapia now, but they use the Nile which matures slower and eats far less algae, plus dies around 60 degrees.



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David, successful ponds use many tools; some native and some "Where the dickens did that come from?".

I personally believe that to have successful fish populations, you first fix the water and the things that effect it. However, we often have to manage around the effects of runoff areas. By that I mean the Spring inflow of turbidity in a lot of water bodies.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I just wondered if, having been posted here in draft form, the paper will show up as having been copied from the Internet. \:o


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Hi David, not even remotely close to being considered anything in the same
hemisphere as an expert, but I will offer this observation anyhoo:
since you are writing this paper in hopes of receiving a good grade, I think that your professors
(who are probably pretty knowledegable on this subject/problem and it's probable solutions)
will be disappointed if you do not mention Blue Tilapia as a possible solution.
You may not favor them, but Rainman offers some good solid input.....

PS - otherwise the paper looks very good.


Just do it...
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 Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
JHAP - this counts as a good post don't you agree?


Well, I would have used the term spectacular.....


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Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll see how my grade turns out.

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Let us know...

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Please post the complete paper when finished.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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All I did was modify the section on fish spawning habitat. 100% on paper, obviously it wasn't graded too hard.

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Congratulations David!!

Can you post the winning draft?




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