Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Finally, the Fish Kill Took Place!

I think that is where Bob Lusk is spot on. Many of the magically appearing fish aren't heron additions but simply fish using skinny waters to make a new pond their home...

They are also great escape artists in a fish cage. If there is an opening they will find it. I also watched two fish plop themselves over the edge of acage that had no cover. That doesn't sound like a big deal but the edge of the cage was a few inches above the water level and they were hybrid bluegill. It was like watching a carefully planned jailbreak.

Thank you guys!
There is no way they will put any screening in, they just won't do it. We are working with the city on drain cleaning, etc., but that outflow flap valve has a lip on it, but think, even if a stick gets caught on it, it will stay somewhat open. It looks like we will most likely have another fish kill to get all the carp in Sept. Permits will have to be extended, and it is difficult as if any rain in the forcast has to be postponed, the outflow has to be shut off for a week after applying the rotenone too, it is tricky. We have minnows in cages now to see if they live for 48 hours. No more fish coming up.

I have. At a nearby lake the city built a series of wetlands to help clean the water before it entered the lake. The wetlands were supposed to be fish free, so they put a 2' drop from the wetlands to the lake. They aren't fish free. There are so many carp in them vegetation can't grow.

We seined one of the wetlands for a class I was in. One year after the wetlands were built the wetland closest to the lake contained common carp, bluegill, green sunfish, emerald shiner, largemouth bass, yellow perch, and yellow bullhead (listed in order from most abundant to least abundant). People may have moved some, but that is a lot of species to move. All of the fish seined were under 8" long, with most under 4", which were probably born in the wetland. A few adult carp were also observed, but not captured in the bag seine.

In the two wetlands further back from the lake (the three wetlands were in series with waterfalls between 1 and 2 feet in between) we found mostly carp with very few bluegills and GSF.

As part of the lab report I found a journal article on a study of green sunfish trying to move up a culvert. A grid of squares with bags to catch the sunfish was placed around a culvert that the GSF were trying to jump into. The culvert was something like 1.5' above the pool/stream the GSF were in. Many fish were caught in the bags nearest to the culvert. One GSF ended up in one of the bags about 3' above the water. Amazing.

The point is a waterfall would need to be taller than most people would think to prevent fish migration. If it were my pond, 5' would be where I would start.

Thank you for that very interesting information. I hope if we do another fish kill they do it soon. We want that zooplankton population to rebound - poor lake, no vegetation, no fish, no birds now, just ducks. However, Fav Guy BOS treated last Friday (hit it hard,it was bad after the fish kill) and then we had 3-1/2" of rain over the weekend, washed in any dead fish that were decomposing in the storm drains, and I am quite surprised that the lake looks as good as it does today, really surprised. Maybe our banning Phosphours and the city vac truck and streetsweeper (he was here today) is going to make a difference? A very interesting science experiment in my own back yard.

PS: My husband is out on Lake St. Clair right now Muskie Fishing, hope they catch a couple, I think they have to be 50" to keep, although I don't know why anyone would want to keep them.

Very exciting:
Secchi Disk reading was 3'6" tonight. That is a 10" gain in water clarity over the average 2'8" for July and Aug. Very exciting, nobody around to share the good news with. Water temp (surface is 79 too). I did see a ripple (what is the right name?) on the surface of the water just at dark that is consistent with a large fish.

Cool! No surprise if you got rid of a bunch of carp.

Get this:
Today i got a 4'4" S. Disk, the lake is looking beautiful, like the old lake, and without any vegetation, this is so wonderful. I took the day off, had two Nuns (fundraising nuns from Boston) out here today, one went for a ride with me in the paddleboat, full habit.
Now get this: GF LakeChairs house was vandalized last night: new fangled version of the old Toilet Paper trick, updated to women's feminine products stuck all over the front of her house, along with condoms filled with lotion, and a large silver long screw placed on her doormant, sounds like the message might be screw you? She is very, very upset. This is Stepfordville, hundreds of hours went into researching the fish kill, the lake is getting better everyday, and then this. Wonder if my house will be next?
Biggest catch yesterday was a 6 pound Walleye.

Sounds like an act of desperation from a crew that realizes they were all wrong. Time to set up a security camera (they are not that expensive -- you can get four for the perimeter of the house at Sams Club, and catch them in the act. Then press charges and really publicize it.

Clarity is getting better and better: can't hardly believe it:
5'2", how can that be? Fav Guy used a peroxide based treatment today as we are finally having hot sunny days with little wind.

PHOTOS, WE NEED PHOTOS. These could have been caption contest photos. In all my 51 years I've never seen two nuns in a paddleboat, I mean come on, how often does that happen? 2cat, you must learn to post photos. Don't make me come out there!




On second though, never mind with the photos.

Seriously though GF must be quite upset. As Cecil said, sounds like time for a security camera in Stepfordville and motion sensor lights, a baseball bat, a shotgun, night vision goggles, a half dozen shuriken and a ninja suit.

Ok, well the sensor lights might be overkill.

I would definitely have no hesitation with baseball bat in hand!

Just like those morons that were protesting at the fallen troops' funerals, if my nephew had come back in body bag, and those folks were scheduled to show up I'd be handing out baseball bats. Knowing myself and my relatives we would have enjoyed it too.

You Guys:
Sit down, I am on cloud nine - the secchi disk reading is get this: 6'4"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so happy, we will get our lake back, this has been 2004, 05, 06, 07, 08, and now 09. Between the BOS and the fish kill, look what has happened, from 2.8" to 6.4" WOW........................

I told Sister Margaret Mary that I wished GFLakechair was home as she is a good catholic girl, that I was a never mind.....

OK:
Sat. S. Disk, 6'8" today 7'. Way too good to be true with water at 80 degrees, and 5 hot, sunny, still days with no water movement to speak of. Big retirement party next door last night: lots of positive feedback, everyone saying this is what the lake was like 15 years ago. Of course we aren't out of the woods yet, but this sort of means to me that we can restore the lake.
Carp are in here, and a few large fish jumping (must be LMB), but no sign of anything small or a g.shad. We will have fish kill 2 in September probably. Usually when we get treated 2-5 g. shad, small ones wash up dead a day later, no sign of that, wit 2 treatment since. I concluded maybe these fish are on top of the water when they treat, and get hit, they are fragile.
I am spending every moment I can out there, this is the summer of fun, and its winding down soon, so sad.

Good for you Lynda! What a difference a 7 foot clarity must be to the naked eye! Don't be surprised if it doubles that if you have the depth especially later this fall when temps drop. I believe you said the lake is former gravel pit?

I would not doubt if all the gizzard shad have been eliminated as they are very sensitive to rotenone. However the few carp that escaped the treatment or have come in since then are troubling. If you don't figure out how to stop immigration of fish you may be right back in the same boat in a few years. Best case scenario is a good predator fish population will keep the carp at bay somewhat, but not completely. The common carp really like to stir up the bottom in search of invertebrates. One of my probable ancestors S.F. Baird of the U.S. Fish Commission that introduced them, should have been fired and summarily shot at dawn.

Keep us posted!

BTW if you can email any pictures to me I would be glad to post them for you.

So the carp are your fault! The lake is only 8 feet deep, and one section where it is 9'. They will come back and get rid of the rest. Cecil, it is so exciting! I am swimming (with life jacket on) and floating and working on my buffer zone of plants which are beautiful and worked so well to hold the sand in.
The outflow or residents installed the bad fish - no fishery management ever, ever despite the study of 1991 that suggested out of balance fishery (stunted bluegill) could be the cause of the green water. I saw a fish jump (carp don't jump?) so maybe a few bass survived, but no evidence of anything else anywhere, and now we can see. Now it will be possible to get benefical plants in there to compete with the CLP. I am so happy!

Carp jump, so it may well have been a carp.

Absolutely. Never had one do it on the line but I've seen them do it repeatedly during spawning.

What's CLP?

Thank you for the clarification, where would I be without you guys?
OK, this evening I got an 8 ft. Secchi Disk Reading, dropped it down further at that spot and the lake is 9ft deep there. Will go around tomorrow and look at the 8 ft areas of the lake if I have time. My asst. is on vacation this week, husband is sick going for ultrasound & cat scan on Wed, hope it all comes out well. GF LakeChair hubby is a little concerned about me and GFLakechair being such good buddies, he thinks I am a bad influence since I had a little too much Baileys at that party the other night: How often is there a party next door with the lake like that? I have been the designated driver for over 30 years, can't I cut loose just a bit?

Let 'er rip.

We have an amazingly clear lake, with zero scum or bubbles in the am in my area, which we have had forever. Large LM Bass have been spotted (the lake is so clear) so there is an effort back on to get them and move them, before the fish kill again in the fall.
Can I use a nylon to try and look at the zooplankton population? It must coming back, wouldn't that account for a lot of the clarity? They sure stressed the Daphinia (sp?) at the Lake Leader Institute Class on zooplankton.
Will be interesting to see how long before next treatment is needed, and what happens in a large rain event, since the drains were cleaned in the spring.
We are pretty sure we know who the vandal was. I think someone's summer was ruined who likes to have his 23-26 year old buddies over to fish. Person has a record too, and has pulled pranks before. We will try to obtain his help in bringing LM back, and give him one of the Spawning Boxes we had made (still sitting here at my work)for his place. His parent's place is very close to me. SILVER LINING HERE: Now GF LakeChair has the perfect reason to make sure we get a BALANCED FISHERY RESTOCKING PLAN, the idea of "LMBass only and don't tell anyone" won't fly now. God works in funny ways.
Mr. Goody Two Shoes GFLC Hubby better just get over me. GF LakeChair and I can move mountians, so many try to drive a wedge between us, we cannot let that happen.