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MikeyBoy #178401 08/11/09 05:56 PM
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Coyotes out west rarely get larger than 30 pounds and average around 20. In the east, they average 30 pounds with big ones pushing 60.

CJBS2003 #178411 08/11/09 07:42 PM
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Dang AP, the biggest I've seen in person is 55. A friend of mine who traps them on his farm said he trapped a large male that was 65. That one in the pic is darn near wolf. Did they do any genetic testing on it to see? I've heard the reason the coyotes in the east are bigger than out west is when they migrated here they went north first, interbred with wolves and have some wolf genetics in them...

CJBS2003 #178414 08/11/09 08:13 PM
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Cj I ran across that article and I don't know what the final disposition was, but some believe it was a cross breed.
I've personally seen some by the cabin that had to be close to 60 lbs.

Last edited by adirondack pond; 08/11/09 08:16 PM.


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Cool pic none the less...

CJBS2003 #178433 08/11/09 09:38 PM
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After imput here and other reading, I'm leaning toward the CZ 452 .17HMR or the CZ453(has a set trigger). Hardly anyone stocks them except Gander Mountain, so haven't picked one up to see how they feel..du


david u #178436 08/11/09 09:45 PM
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Once you get used to the set triggers, you'll really like them.


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MikeyBoy #178554 08/12/09 05:16 PM
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david u,

I'm sorry that you wouldn't take me up on my offer. If you feel that what you are doing is the right thing to do, then don't go stealth. Be open about it. Tell your neighbors and community. Let your neighbors know that you are protecting your property and family against killer coyotes. Perhaps they can help. Your community has a stake in THEIR wildlife also. Have you addressed this problem with the authorities? What is their take about you taking the law into your own hands? Let the people know walking the streets in your neighborhood that they may want to avoid your area. Let people know that there may be wounded coyotes in the neighborhood, so that they can protect themselves from coyotes that have never bothered them before, but can really be dangerous when wounded.

I'm pretty sure that I know your neighborhood. I've never once heard of a coyote causing problems. People shoot dogs sometimes, but I've never heard of anyone shooting coyotes until now.

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Unlike timber wolves, coyotes will attack people, even more so with coy-dogs. Coyotes are increasing by leaps and bounds. Shooting them is a public service.

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With all due respect Aldo, you must live in a bubble if you have never heard of anyone shooting coyotes until now. Coyotes around here subsist on anything they can get their teeth into. As a bit of fod for thought, the PA game commission has done radio collar studies on whitetailed deer fawns, and coyotes were the number two predator on young coyote fawns. Black bear are number one, I know we shouldn't shoot them either, ever read Genesis 9:3??

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 Originally Posted By: AldoLeo49
david u,

I'm sorry that you wouldn't take me up on my offer. If you feel that what you are doing is the right thing to do, then don't go stealth. Be open about it. Tell your neighbors and community. Let your neighbors know that you are protecting your property and family against killer coyotes. Perhaps they can help. Your community has a stake in THEIR wildlife also. Have you addressed this problem with the authorities? What is their take about you taking the law into your own hands? Let the people know walking the streets in your neighborhood that they may want to avoid your area. Let people know that there may be wounded coyotes in the neighborhood, so that they can protect themselves from coyotes that have never bothered them before, but can really be dangerous when wounded.

I'm pretty sure that I know your neighborhood. I've never once heard of a coyote causing problems. People shoot dogs sometimes, but I've never heard of anyone shooting coyotes until now.


Aldo

Sorry to butt in....first off, welcome to the Forum! Secondly, I appreciate your position and most of us can appreciate your passion for defending/supporting it. We have a lot of sportsmen on the Forum and the vast majority have grown up with guns and hunting in their blood. I respect these guys, heck, admire them and really consider them my cyber-brothers. However, there is a smaller contingent of us that approach fisheries management and their wilderness experience from more of a conservation position, including myself. The president of the Arbor Day Foundation and a friend of mine is a forum member - so you can see we literally run the spectrum in terms of viewpoints.

One aspect I value so deeply is we all bring our passion, expertise, and personal experience to the table. It's a diverse group, to be sure, but I feel that makes our collective experience that much richer. I've learned in a couple years from the forum members what would have taken me a lifetime and thousands of dollars on my own, and developed some great friendships along the way from guys with completely different backgrounds and experiences than my own - which has been very rewarding.

With that in mind, wanted to say I appreciate your position and to let you know my experience has shown that the forum is not represented by drunken sign shooting poachers or bleeding heart eco warriors - but a considerate blend thereof...so again, welcome aboard!

FYI - As for the questions on where Sand County is located - it's in Wisconsin somewhere if memory serves me correctly. Aldo Leopold is the author of Sand County Almanac - a sacred, historic text as far as conservationists are concerned - and one of my favorite books. Great allusion, Aldo.


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Everyone has a right to their opinion,and the freedom to express it ,but some people only see what they want to see!!! ;\)

Last edited by adirondack pond; 08/12/09 07:10 PM.


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[quote=teehjaeh57FYI - As for the questions on where Sand County is located - it's in Wisconsin somewhere if memory serves me correctly. Aldo Leopold is the author of Sand County Almanac - a sacred, historic text as far as conservationists are concerned - and one of my favorite books. Great allusion, Aldo. [/quote]

Yup. Saulk County, Wi. Aldo passed away in 1949 and one of his sons, Luna published the book Sand County Almanac after his father's death. Aldo was a professor at UW Madison. For a book that was published roughly 30 years after market hunting ended, it was very controversial. It still is a classic, and I highly recommend it if you haven't read it before.


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esshup #178572 08/12/09 08:29 PM
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Thanks for the clarification Esshup - in full agreement any steward of the land who plants a tree or controls erosion creates wildlife etc. would benefit from this read - and that's all of us in the forum I reckon.

Sorry for the brief hijack just wanted to shout out to my conservationist and my second ammendment supporting bros!


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Moderators and forum members, the purpose of this thread was to get imput on rifle selection, not the moral or ethical aspects of hunting or eliminating unwanted critters that kill your livestock or pets. Those topics IMHO don't belong here. If it is so deemed appropriate by the moderators, locking this thread is sure ok my me...du


david u #178655 08/13/09 11:06 AM
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 Originally Posted By: david u
After imput here and other reading, I'm leaning toward the CZ 452 .17HMR or the CZ453(has a set trigger). Hardly anyone stocks them except Gander Mountain, so haven't picked one up to see how they feel..du


DU, I think you will be well served by the 17HMR. While I have never owned a CZ, they do have a very good reputation. How much do they run?

Bass Pro has a heavy barrelled blued Savage bolt action in 17HMR with accu-trigger on sale for $219. I personally bought the Stainless Bull Barrelled Savage with the thumbhole stock. It ain't much for totin around, but it sure works great from a fixed position.

At 100 yds, it will average less than 3/4 of an inch all day long, wind permitting, and my best 100 yd group to date was .375".

Wreaks havoc on turtles!!


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Thanks again for all the helpful imput. I ended up getting a CZ 452 American in .17HMR. Put a Leupold 4-12x40 on it with Harris bi-pod. Shot it in last evening and really like the rifle. I have ordered the trigger adj kit. Opted out of the 453(single trigger set) rifle because the pull, for me, was awkward after setting the trigger. The CZ 452 was $400, the CZ 453 Varmit was over $500..Here's the set up



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Very nice du! That's an outfit to like.
You'll be impressed the first time you take game at 200yds. They drop before you can blink.


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Very nice DU. Great looking wooden stock finish. I like the magazine feed... How many rounds does the magazine hold? Where's the photo of the target you shot?

david u #178763 08/13/09 11:49 PM
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Nice rig! You preloading the bipod before the shot? 9"-13" non-swivel?


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esshup #178781 08/14/09 05:33 AM
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What does preloading a bipod mean?

I'm a real long way from being a conservationist. However, I've never shot a coyote. I like watching the ultimate hunter work. However, anything that becomes a problem is history.


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I consider myself an avid conservationist. I have returned most of our farm to wildlife habitat, and when done, hopefully 90% will be in wildlife habitat. We have done this by going to high-intensity farming (just about the opposite of organic farming). We concentrate high-productivity vegetable culture on a few acres, allowing restoration of the remaining acres. We use raised beds, plasticulture and drip irrigation, and use pesticides according to lable only when needed. I also hunt those game animals that have thriving populations, including deer. We have lots of coyotes, and I take these out when I get a chance (usually during the time when their fur can be used). We have no wolves to do this for us. I do not even make a nick in the population. Turkey are legal, but our local population is meager, so I have never hunted them or killed one. Trespassers on neighbors' land have just about wiped them out. To me, conservationists preserve natural resources, and our farm now has way more animals (game and non-game) and plants than it did in 1990 when we bought it. It also has a added pond, 3 wetlands and prairie, and we are not done. I consider myself an avid hunter and conservationist. I don't see the conflict between the two.

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 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
What does preloading a bipod mean?


Copied from Bugholes by Froggy

"And don't even think of shooting free recoil off a bipod. It just doesn't work because you don't want those legs bouncing backwards out of control.

When shooting with a bipod it is essential that the bipod be adjusted properly for elevation and cant. The bipod must be of good quality. I like Harris swivel bipods with notched legs. When the bipod is set up properly, and if you push slightly forward with the rifle to firm up the 'pod's legs, excellent results can be realized with lots of practice."


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esshup #178797 08/14/09 07:58 AM
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esshup:

Since Froggy was talking .308, would this still be applicable with the hard-recoiling .17 HMR?


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Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet DU!!

I think you will like it.


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