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Posts Transferred from FRPeeps (Frank's) Pond Project thread at the suggestion of george1.

 Originally Posted By: DavidV
Otto,

Here are some pics from my pond expansion. I really appreciated you and Bob providing invaluable advice to a newbie as myself!! I am just glad I hooked up with the Pond Boss family when I did or I might have, probably would have had, a project that I would have been unhappy with. The dam was closed this past week. Missed that 12" of rain we had in May. The equipment was broken down causing the delay. You were right when you told me that most dirt guys want to tak ethe closest dirt to build the dam. Well, I got them to back off the dam and deepen those shallows to 4', 12' from the bank. Put some ridges in for bottom structure. Deepest part is 20.5'. dam is 800' long. Will send along some more pics on next post.


Topo of property. Existing pond is approx 1.5 acres.


Aerial view of exisitng pond and proposed expansion.


Exisitng pond from dam



View behind exisitng dam



Behind dam prior to work


Drum over exisitng pond drain valve riser with trees cleared.


Hole in old dam caused by beaver. The trackhoe took care of that problem in a hurry!!


dam is starting to take shape



A river runs thu it after the 12" of rain in May.My pond would have been half full if the dam had been closed.



 Quote:
Will send more pics. If anyone has comments that may help me, I would appreciate it. What kind of vegetation/grasses should I plant on the dam for erosion control?


 Originally Posted By: otto
We where hoping you would join us on the forum. Thanks for the pictures.

Plant bermuda gress on the dam.


 Originally Posted By: DavidV
These were pics from my cell phone. My better half has the good ones in her camera and she ran off today, taking kids to Six Flags. Sounds HOT! My contractors gave me a bill that included an extra for taking the dirt from the front to the dam. I expected that after seeing their reactions when advised of this necessity. The dam is 100'wide at the base, and slops very gradually on the backside,maybe 2/1, good for mowing.

After they completed their work last Thursdaqy the dozer would not shut off, wanted to keep going. They had to remove fuel lines from the injector pump to kill the darn thing. Now it is in pieces again sitting on my old dam.


 Originally Posted By: DavidV
Here are some more pics taken today while I was seeding the dam, ugh. Seed is expensive. Hope it germinates






At least the bottom holds water


one of the ridges

Another ridge, will be 5' below normal pool level.


From the center of the dam


My finger is always in the wrong place


Looking from east. Ridges,


From east again



Will be adding some cedars for cover, anyone need cedar wood? I have acres of it. Boulders and other fishy things.


 Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
Looks great, what kind of seed did you put down?


 Originally Posted By: FRPeeps
David, That's a great looking project. Congrats!

Where in N. Texas are you located?


 Originally Posted By: DavidV
Thanks for the compliment. Put down Bermuda as Otto advised. Now if it will rain it would be great. I have no water on property yet other than exisitng pond.


Last edited by Theo Gallus; 08/16/09 06:57 AM.

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Second Page Posts:

 Originally Posted By: DavidV
Thanks for the compliment. Your's looks great also. I just need some satellite dishes. I'm in Hopkins Co. NW of Sulphur Springs. Not to far from you. Your land looks a lot like mine with all the oak trees. Has yours filled yet??


 Originally Posted By: DavidV
Here is a photo of me and my guys that built the pond. Which one is me??

Will be drilling a deep well next week to hopefully fill the pond. 50 gal/min should help. Solar powered well pump etc. Any input on solar powered pumps would be greatly appreciated.




 Originally Posted By: esshup
I'm guessing far left.

As far as solar pumps, I think you need to have the solar panels charge batteries, and run the pump from the batteries.


 Originally Posted By: Brettski
 Originally Posted By: DavidV
Here is a photo of me and my guys that built the pond. Which one is me??

...the guy with the thinnest wallet...?
\:\)
GREAT lookin' project!


 Originally Posted By: eddie_walker
I'm guessing you are the guy without a hat. The others are all smiles, so I'm also guessing that they are the ones getting paid. LOL

Eddie


 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus
The guy without a hat, and WITH a water bottle.


 Originally Posted By: DavidV
Next question.

Which illustrious Pond Bosser do you think captured this moment of time in a digital format?


 Originally Posted By: DavidV
A few more pics.





Maintenance Crew


 Originally Posted By: DavidV
A few pics from today. Have had some rain lately.





 Originally Posted By: otto
plant some grass.


Last edited by Theo Gallus; 08/16/09 06:55 AM.

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Hope to see you at the conferanc, bring the dozer people with you they will have the time of ther life(a break from working on the equipment will do them good)

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Why did George1 decide to transplant my pics? He must be a very important man. I have a bermuda carpet growing on top and down one side now after $250 worth of seed. My dozer people are dairy farmers as you know. Dairy's aren't doing very well now. Wal-Mart has milk at $1.98/gal. Feed is up. Got frogs and hogs in my pond now. Have 7200 volts near. I figure I can shock the hogs, prod the dozer guys and romance my wife and be at the conference.




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 Originally Posted By: DavidV
Why did George1 decide to transplant my pics? He must be a very important man.

george is my hero.


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 Originally Posted By: DavidV
Why did George1 decide to transplant my pics? He must be a very important man.

Ouch ...
As I explained by PM, your excellent thread interrupted (hi-jacked) Frank Peeps classic pond building thread, and I felt your thread important enough to deserve special recognician.
Moderator approval.
My apologies. \:\)



N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




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If George says it......


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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... we make it so.


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Some grass on dam is finally growing. Bermuda.



soon to be minnow motels once I find some help unloading. Helped a contractor of mine clean off a job site today.



Went out this weekend with transit and double checked elevations. Orange line is full level.Approx 2' below top of dam. Drain on one side is within an inch of this line, the secondary drain on the opposite side of the dam is 10" above.






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DavidV, re-reading your thread and looking at your pictures, it appeared in the picture showing just a little water and nearly the entire dam, that the center of the dam looked about one to twoo feet low. Is it my imagination or perhaps a panoramic shot illusion ? Maybe, but it sure looks like there is a dip, and run-off topping that monster of a berm would be all bad.



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Thanks for the observation, There is a small dip in the center- about 4". Here is another pic at or close to the center with the normal (full) pool level at the bottom of the stake. I have two natural, wide, drains, one on each side that I hope will take care of a flood condition. The water will never get as high as the dam because the inflow to my exisitng pond is about 18" below the adjacent road level. I just hope that it will fill up some time soon.





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Happy Birthday David!


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Thank you! My wife asked what I would like for my B-day and I told her about 6" of rain directly over my new pond. Didn't happen but one can always wish. How is your project coming along? I already have fish and frogs in the new part. The fish (minnows and fry) came out the drain of the existing pond and traveled to their new home. They were all trying to swim upstream but the current was too strong. Thanks again for the thought.

Last edited by DavidV; 09/01/09 08:20 PM.



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I know what you mean. When I was waiting for my pond to fill I would watch the radar on weather.com every time there was a rain cloud. Without fail the best parts of the storm, the reds and yellows, always seemed to slightly miss where I wanted them to go. Hang in there, your day will come. My pond is doing fine, maturing before my eyes. It's my favorite place to be!


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Here is my daughter on the right with her friend and Molly which I found at this land under our 4- wheeler. They like the old pond Ok. One can see the new berm in the background. They transferred to the new pond and gave themselves "beauty" clay baths. Pics to follow.









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Haven't updated for a while. But since last update I have had 11" of rain. New pond has filled quicker than I expected. I really have my work cut out now to get that pier constructed before I am working underwater.

Just wan't to throw this out to the experts for opinions.

My exisitng pond is 1.5 acres. Stocked with LMB and BG with some fairly nice BG and LMB up to 16" with most in the 10"-14" range.

My first inclination when starting this project was to let the new pond fill to a level then open the drain valve to the existing pond and let the water levels equalize. At that point I wanted to bring someone in to clean up the shallows of the exisitng pond (15yrs old) and break the dam to allow a continuos waterway between the existing and new. I also wanted to construct a bridge over the dam opening for ease of access to the opposite side of the water (I have an entrance gate to my property on that side which may come in handy later on). The main reason for connectiong the two ponds was to have a deep area(new pond) for recreation (swimming, kayaking, water trampoline and other kids stuff) and a shallower part with inlet creeks and flats for good spawn habitat.

Any thoughts or suggestions on the following issues would be greatly appreciated:

1)What do do with existing fish when and if I drain old pond?

2)If I don't connect the two immediately, should I begin stocking the new with forage fish this fall?

3) Does anyone know where to obtain live crayfish in the NE Texas area and is it advisable to insert these into the arena?

4) What are the pro's and con's for two separate ponds? The new pond has fairly steep banks 3/1 all around on advice from a Pondmeister and I am concerned about spawning grounds if this pond remains separated. Is this a valid concern?

Here are som pic's taken recently.

Sep. 22


Typical BG in exisitng pond



Rain gauge for past week


10/10/09


Grass finally taking on dam


Looking from exisitng dam



Top of the exisitng drain valve riser. Will need good waders or a raft to access now. At least the handle is above water under the drum.


See old pond in background and exisitng dam











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The longer I'm on here, the more attractive 2 separate ponds look.

Crayfish, I think are only available late Spring to late Summer.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Thank you for your reply. Why would you say two ponds are more attractive?Just curious.




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The two ponds would allow creating two diverse fisheries. For instance, want to catch some big catfish? pond 1. Large LMB and CNBG, fish pond 2.

A friend down in Dallas who has property about 80 miles East of Dallas has maybe 20 different ponds on his place, from 70 ac to >5 ac. The 35ac pond is managed for trophy LMB, and he loads it up with TSH. There also are BG, RES and Crappie in it as well, but the main focus is trophy LMB. His target is 12+# in 2 more years, and he's well on his way. Another pond (around 3 ac) has a good population of CC and CNBG, and just enough LMB to keep things in line.


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David

Great looking ponds! Many meisters probably wish they were facing your difficult decision right now.
Hope it's okay I chime in...I struggled with the same kind of question and ended up deciding to construct multiple ponds instead of one larger pond. I value diversity and the opportunity to experiment and learn through my successes and failures over the benefits of simply having a larger BOW. I initially believed in a iron clad correlation between BOW and fish size: Bigger the water, bigger the fish - so I was obsessed with building as large a pond as I could. Thankfully, before I began my projects, I realized fish size and the success of a project is largely dependent on the knowledge of and extensive management practices of the owner - not the size of the BOW. I'm glad I found the forum before I executed my plans.

It obviously comes down to your personal goals and - but I'd recommend keeping them separate and benefitting from experimenting and trying something different in your new pond. You have a blank canvas...how cool is that?!?


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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 Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
David

Great looking ponds! Many meisters probably wish they were facing your difficult decision right now.
Hope it's okay I chime in...I struggled with the same kind of question and ended up deciding to construct multiple ponds instead of one larger pond. I value diversity and the opportunity to experiment and learn through my successes and failures over the benefits of simply having a larger BOW. I initially believed in a iron clad correlation between BOW and fish size: Bigger the water, bigger the fish - so I was obsessed with building as large a pond as I could. Thankfully, before I began my projects, I realized fish size and the success of a project is largely dependent on the knowledge of and extensive management practices of the owner - not the size of the BOW. I'm glad I found the forum before I executed my plans.

It obviously comes down to your personal goals and - but I'd recommend keeping them separate and benefitting from experimenting and trying something different in your new pond. You have a blank canvas...how cool is that?!?


+1

Plus, if you change your mind about 2 ponds You have the luxury of being able to pull the plug and make it all one pond at any time!



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I really appreciate your opinions. Will probably keep the ponds separated for now although where the old pond and new pond meet there will be some common water during high water conditions.

I have been told a few differing forage stocking options. One is 800 bluegill/200 redear, another is 600 bluegill/300 redear and yet another is 1000 bluegill/200 redear. Any opinions, good advice? Not stocking CC as yet. LMB to follow this spring.




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You're far enough south that Coppernose BG would flourish. If you don't have any in the other pond, I'd look into those. Is Todd Overton close enough to get fish from?

If you have CNGB, what about some of Bruce Condello's BG's if they are available?

I don't remember if you said earlier. What are your goals (fish wise) for each pond? (or one single large pond?)


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What are the sizes of the two ponds, David? One big consideration: if neither pond is going to be larger than an acre or two, you'd have a much better chance at achieving a trophy bass fishery with one larger pond of three or four or more acres than you would with a smaller pond. Big bass need lots and lots of forage, and it's generally held that a pond of an acre or less isn't going to be able to produce more than one trophy bass.

So the biggest question that needs to be addressed, both in deciding whether to keep multiple ponds or make one and in deciding what numbers to stock, is what fish is your top priority? If it's trophy bass, you're going to have a much better chance of achieving your goal with one big pond. And stocking numbers will be higher on the bluegill than any you've been told: 1250 bluegill per acre would be a good minimum if big bass are the goal, and you could go as high as 2000 where you live as bass in the Deep South (I don't know if northern TX qualifies, though I'm guessing it probably does) seem to eat through more forage and more quickly (probably due to a longer growing season) than elsewhere. You would also want to stock additional forage species such as threadfin shad and golden shiners, and after two or three years when your bass are starting to put on some size, gizzard shad to give them bigger mouthfuls and get them really huge. Crayfish could also be good to stock and have been shown to make a difference in growing trophy bass. Numbers-wise on bass you would want to go lower than what most hatcheries advise, about forty per acre; I would go with 20 F-1 bass, 10 Florida, and 10 northern-strain per acre.

If on the other hand trophy bluegill are your main focus, you'll want to go with lower numbers than any you've been told: I would recommend no more than 250 CNBG (coppernose bluegill) per acre and 200 shellcracker (higher numbers ratio-wise of shellcracker because they will get very big in a southern BOW). You would want higher numbers of bass, at least 100 per acre. And you would want to skip other forage species (TS, GSH, GS) because they'll compete directly with the bluegill for food and drastically lessen their growth. You would want to install at least a couple automatic feeders, roughly one per acre or two acres depending on your budget. And, if bluegill are the focus, don't wait to stock the bass - stock them now with the bluegill so the bluegill don't have the opportunity to get in a spawn next spring with no predation. One good spawn can overpopulate a pond with bluegill, which is good from a big-bass standpoint but disaster if big bluegill are the goal.

With either plan, you'll want to fertilize to maximize the food chain. And, most serious pondmeisters nowadays use automatic feeders even if bass are the priority because the bluegill produce more offspring due to having a better food source, and reach intermediate sizes that give bass bigger bites, more quickly.

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The existing pond is 1.5 acres. BG and LMB now. The new pond is 3.5 acres (will be when full). My goals are to have a quality LMB fishery but to have some quality BG as well if that is possible.

I have contacted Todd w/ Overton. I didn't realize he was not in "Overton" TX which is fairly close to my pond. Todd recommended the 800/200 mix.

Anyone know where I can get crayfish this time of year?




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3.5 acres is big enough to have a nice bass lake; you could grow three or four real trophies, and good numbers of three- to six-pound fish, based on where you live and stocking mostly F-1s or Floridas or a mixture of the two. I would load up the new pond now with forage including GSH, TS, FHM, and tilapia, and crayfish if you can get them. Zetts hatchery in WV sells crayfish and they ship all over the U.S.:

http://zettsfishhatchery.com/id53.html

I've never bought crayfish from them, but I have gotten fish from them a few different times and had great luck with them, never had so much as a single dead fish though they shipped them to TN.

It looks like you already have some decent-sized bluegill in the existing pond, so it wouldn't be too difficult to make it into a first-rate trophy bluegill pond. I would start by not keeping or allowing anyone to keep any bass so that they overpopulate; an overcrowded bass population keeps the bluegill well-thinned such that the ones that survive the bass gauntlet grow several times faster and larger than in a pond in which the bluegill were more crowded. If you don't have a lot of bass in the pond currently, it wouldn't be a bad idea to stock a few or several in the 8-10" size. Install one or two automatic feeders and begin feeding twice a day, or three times if they eat the food really well; you'll probably have to cut back to once a day during the winter, but you should be able to feed all through the winter unless you're at a high elevation and get harsh winters. Start a monthly regimen of fertilization beginning next March (you'll probably have to apply twice in March to get a bloom, but after that once a month should do it) and fertilize March through October every year. I would recommend stocking some CNBG just because they grow faster and larger than common northern-strain bluegill, especially at southern latitudes like you are; Overton has some beautiful CNBG that get really big. But you would need to stock the largest ones they can get you, as fingerlings would get munched by the bass and bluegill already in the pond. Lastly, a few of us on here have stocked grass shrimp as an additional forage for bluegill, and especially if you have some weedgrowth or even just decent cover of any type in the pond, stocking them could make a difference, especially if they successfully establish. More than one pondmeister on here has had them establish in his pond this year.

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Thanks for your advice Walt. I am geting more confused by the minute due to too many choices and decisions that i will have to live with for a long time. Oh well, I got married once and still am.

My pond is about 15 miles north of Lake Fork, TX. I know TS survive very well in that reservoir. Hopefully they will do well in my new pond.

The Zetts site was interesting. They sell nearly anything that swims, crawls or leaves welts on your body (fleas). Snails sound interesting as they reportedly multiply extremely fast and are good forage for all. Do you have any experience with snails? will they overpopulate to a dangerous level? I have also thught about water salamanders or as some people refer to them as "mud dogs". Any ideas on these creatures in a new pond?

Much to ponder no pun intended. Thanks for all your help as well as other pondmeisters that have interjected their feelings on the issue.

I welcome any more suggestions.




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The thing about snails is they're one of the primary carriers of certain parasites that infect fish. Shellcrackers love them; the part of Santee-Cooper lake in SC that produced the world-record shellcracker had had a recent influx of Zebra mussels shortly before the record. They could possibly be okay if you had a good number of shellcracker in the pond; oftentimes they'll find their way to a pond without help, much in the way frogs do.

Salamanders, on the other hand, I think are a great idea. I've pondered more than once myself stocking them as additional bass forage; it's been proven bass love them, and I'm not aware of any drawbacks they pose (though that doesn't mean there aren't any).

TS I'm sure would be fine in your pond. Bass definitely love them.

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 Originally Posted By: Walt Foreman
Start a monthly regimen of fertilization beginning next March (you'll probably have to apply twice in March to get a bloom, but after that once a month should do it) and fertilize March through October every year.

Walt, help me out on your fertilization program recommendation for DavidV’s pond?
I don’t understand your recommendation.

This is a disaster waiting to happen in our area – our ponds are only a few miles north of DavidV’s and we have to cope with high nutrient water problems from natural occurring events.
Maybe a one time jump-start with fertilizer or a bucket or so of muck from his other pond will produce fast occurring plankton bloom in our area.



N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
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 Originally Posted By: Walt Foreman
the part of Santee-Cooper lake in SC that produced the world-record shellcracker had had a recent influx of Zebra mussels shortly before the record. They could possibly be okay if you had a good number of shellcracker in the pond; oftentimes they'll find their way to a pond without help, much in the way frogs do.


I could be wrong but I believe the species of bivalve that invaded the Santee Cooper that assisted the shellcracker along was the Asiatic clam. http://www.dnr.sc.gov/water/envaff/aquatic/zebra.html It too is quite invasive but in a different way. I recently introduced them into a pond as a test to see how they do in a small pond environment.

See http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=158752 for further info on the Asiatic clam.

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 Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
 Originally Posted By: Walt Foreman
the part of Santee-Cooper lake in SC that produced the world-record shellcracker had had a recent influx of Zebra mussels shortly before the record. They could possibly be okay if you had a good number of shellcracker in the pond; oftentimes they'll find their way to a pond without help, much in the way frogs do.


I could be wrong but I believe the species of bivalve that invaded the Santee Cooper that assisted the shellcracker along was the Asiatic clam. http://www.dnr.sc.gov/water/envaff/aquatic/zebra.html It too is quite invasive but in a different way. I recently introduced them into a pond as a test to see how they do in a small pond environment.

See http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=158752 for further info on the Asiatic clam.


Santee Cooper is notoriously turbid, right? Have the bivalves improved water clarity?


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George, it's a pretty standard practice in pond management. The one significant reason for not doing it is if one lives far enough north that a pond ices over; most pondmeisters and biologists on here advise against fertilizing in such circumstances due to the increased risk of winter kill, though as I have noted in past posts, there are numerous state agencies and one regional wildlife agency in northern climes that definitely have ice-over every winter, that still recommend the practice for pond owners. I think you've confused the caution exercised by northern pond managers fearing winter kill, with a general caution against fertility. Plankton is the foundation of the food chain in any pond, northern or southern, eastern or western; less plankton equals less food for the fish, from the bottom of the food chain to the top, and less food equals less growth. As noted above, it makes sense to thoroughly evaluate one's BOW and proceed cautiously when contemplating fertilization in a northern pond, but there's no reason not to fertilize a southern pond unless the pond maintains a great plankton bloom year-round without help, which very few ponds do (many ponds experience brief, unsustained blooms at sporadic intervals, but in my experience I can't ever remember seeing one that maintained an ideal bloom from spring through fall such as one would typically get in a pond that's regularly fertilized, without fertilization).

If by "disaster" you mean three to ten times the carrying capacity of what the pond had prior to fertilization, along with fish growth that's exponentially faster than before fertilization, I think most pond owners would welcome that sort of disaster. I've worked with over twenty different ponds and small lakes that were former phosphate pits, which means they're about as naturally fertile as a body of water can possibly be; many of these bodies of water did at times have good plankton blooms prior to fertilization, but the blooms were sporadic; when I began managing the ponds the blooms no longer were sporadic because I fertilized them. And I had no disasters. But the fish did begin growing drastically faster than they had before fertilization.

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CJ, you might be right, very possibly are; I just remember that some species of invasive bi-valve entered the lake in high numbers in the canal area, and within a couple years the world record was caught.

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 Originally Posted By: Walt Foreman
George, it's a pretty standard practice in pond management. The one significant reason for not doing it is if one lives far enough north that a pond ices over; most pondmeisters and biologists on here advise against fertilizing in such circumstances due to the increased risk of winter kill, though as I have noted in past posts, there are numerous state agencies and one regional wildlife agency in northern climes that definitely have ice-over every winter, that still recommend the practice for pond owners. I think you've confused the caution exercised by northern pond managers fearing winter kill, with a general caution against fertility. Plankton is the foundation of the food chain in any pond, northern or southern, eastern or western; less plankton equals less food for the fish, from the bottom of the food chain to the top, and less food equals less growth. As noted above, it makes sense to thoroughly evaluate one's BOW and proceed cautiously when contemplating fertilization in a northern pond, but there's no reason not to fertilize a southern pond unless the pond maintains a great plankton bloom year-round without help, which very few ponds do (many ponds experience brief, unsustained blooms at sporadic intervals, but in my experience I can't ever remember seeing one that maintained an ideal bloom from spring through fall such as one would typically get in a pond that's regularly fertilized, without fertilization).

If by "disaster" you mean three to ten times the carrying capacity of what the pond had prior to fertilization, along with fish growth that's exponentially faster than before fertilization, I think most pond owners would welcome that sort of disaster. I've worked with over twenty different ponds and small lakes that were former phosphate pits, which means they're about as naturally fertile as a body of water can possibly be; many of these bodies of water did at times have good plankton blooms prior to fertilization, but the blooms were sporadic; when I began managing the ponds the blooms no longer were sporadic because I fertilized them. And I had no disasters. But the fish did begin growing drastically faster than they had before fertilization.
Walt, this isn’t my first rodeo ...

“Start a monthly regimen of fertilization beginning next March (you'll probably have to apply twice in March to get a bloom, but after that once a month should do it) and fertilize March through October every year.”

IMHO, that’s scary advise for a N.E. Texas pond.



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We have been through this before. The archive is a good place to start.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96127#Post96127

Many ponds don't need to be fertilized even in the south.
















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Every major pond management company I know of in the South advises fertilization, as do most state agencies, on a regular basis to maintain a visibility of 18" or less, which generally entails roughly once a month. I'm not clear on what the disaster might be either. And, as I already noted, it's unlikely that David's pond is more fertile than an old phosphate pit, so any notion that it's at an exceptional level of fertility that I have no familiarity with, seems not sound.

Here's a link to a page on a pond management company in OH's website on which they recommend fertilizing and quote Texas A&M as obviously recommending it as the single most important element of pond management, based on the quote:

http://www.atac.cc/pages/fertilizing_your_pond.asp

The quote from TAMU is, "If you do nothing else, fertilize." That's coming from one of the top, if not the top, universities in Texas when it comes to fisheries science.

Here's a full publication from TAMU, written by a fisheries specialist who works with the university's extension program, recommending fertilization as the cornerstone of pond management in TX, and which specifically states fertilization should be done monthly, or "more frequently if needed, to maintain the bloom":

http://urbanrancher.tamu.edu/retiredsite/aquatic/0904a.pdf

Here are publications from several other Southern states (both universities and DNRs) recommending a monthly program of fertilization as the cornerstone of pond management:

http://www.wildlifemanagement.info/files/fish_ponds_31.pdf

http://www.dcnr.state.al.us/fishing/freshwater/where/ponds/m/f/fertilizing.cfm

http://warnell.forestry.uga.edu/service/library/index.php3?docID=44

http://msucares.com/pubs/infosheets/is0229.htm

http://www.uaex.edu/aquaculture/FSA/FSA9005.htm

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA003

http://www.seagrantfish.lsu.edu/resources/factsheets/pond_mgmt.htm

I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong; but I don't think a strong case could be made that in this case I made a bad recommendation to David, or even one that is anything less than very sound and helpful.

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Walt it is not uncommon for people to take that type advice and fertilize without first testing (not knowing the limiting factor) resulting in a dense plankton bloom and a resulting DO crash. This kills many of their fish and sets back there program and costs them money needlessly. There are unfortunately a number of people on this forum who have done exactly that and suffered. I know none of us want to be responsible for that happening to someone.

Without knowing the specifics of the pond a blanket recommendation to fertilize is not good advice. That is what George was pointing out. That is what the archive provides. It quotes from the SRAC publications (TX A&M is a host). The second link in the archive to the MS Pond Manual is common. If you look at the chart in it you will see that an entire region of MS (the Delta - about 25% of the state) does not need fertilizer.
















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Walt, what you are missing is that some waters are naturally fertile. Both I and neighbors have killed fish by fertilization and that additional carrying capacity sounds good until a DO crash occurs. Fertilizing in DavidV's area may be a guarantee of disaster. He is just about equadistant between George and I.

When the summer comes and evaporation starts in our area, having 150% of the natural carrying capacity can easily become 300% or more. Thus, it's not whether we will get a fish kill but when. It's about like fertilizing a lawn and not watering it in.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 10/13/09 09:05 PM.

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I get that some waters are naturally fertile; as I noted twice previously, I work with several phosphate pits, and ponds don't get more naturally fertile than that. But I will grant that a big difference between Texas and Tennessee is the amount of rainfall, and thus the degree of surface-acreage loss due to evaporation during the summer; I've never had a pond lose seven feet in one year (though it has happened here years ago during a bad drought, but I wasn't managing ponds then).

So I completely understand that that's an important consideration in Texas, and one not to be taken lightly. I also recognize the truth of what Eric notes in saying that some ponds don't need fertilization; but even on the chart for that one region of MS for which MSU doesn't recommend fertilization, it says, "usually not needed," which is a long way from, "never needed." And, that's one out of five regions; they recommend it as a blanket rule for the other four regions of the state.

So I recognize that it's not always, 100% of the time, the right approach. I just don't see how that, or careless methods of application, translates to not recommending it anywhere there's fertile soil when it could make a huge difference in the quality of fishing for a lot of pond owners who live in such places. I live in an area that used to be one of the biggest sources of phosphate in the country, and there's a lot of extremely fertile soil here; and fertilization has made an enormous difference for me. Perhaps I should have included in my recommendation that David read up in the archives on potential dangers of fertilization. Probably the obvious question at this point for David would be, what does your water look like? If it gets a good bloom naturally, there's no need or reason to fertilize; if it doesn't, his fish will not grow as large or as fast without it. Just my $.02 from phosphate country.

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Walt et al, I appreciate your dissertations and recommendations on the topic of fertilization. I will make a secchi disk and closely monitor the water clarity and conditions. As George pointed out, the ponds in our area seem to fertilize naturally. It may have something to do with the dairy farming and associated run-off that is prevalent in the area.

I remember when I was an avid fisherman, 150 times per year on Lake Fork, TX that bioligists and other people in the know attributed the fertility of that reservoir to the dairy run-off. I have no idea of the validity of such a claim but it is one that may merit consideration.

My particular piece of land is 100% wooded with post oak with the exception of the two ponds. I have dead trees on the ground throughout the property. Does the organics associated with rotting wood, fungi and mushrooms (a lot lately) contribute to the natural fertilization via run-off?

I am just a learner here. Willing to do what is necessary to make my new pond fruitful and enjoyable for my children and those to come.

Thanks for all your advice.




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In the mid Atlantic, the "natural" fertility comes from chickens not cows but hey, poop is poop... I think chicken poop is perty nasty though! All the chicken poop washing into the Chesapeake Bay is what is causing the huge dead zones in the Bay and killing crabs, stripers and menhaden.

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A few pics from today after 3.5" of rain in two days. I went out Sunday and stacked bricks for minnow motels at a depth of 4'. They are now under water. The rain in these parts is crazy. I would have never expected this pond to fill in three months starting July1!!

Small motel.


Larger motel


Pond from dam


This is how the new pond fills from the overflow of the existing


Today's rain


From the new berm

The minnow motels are gone


Made an appt. with Todd w/Overton for friday this week. Bringing CNBG/RES/FHM for my initial forage stocking. I wonder if that will be enough for that 80lb cat that I need to buy??




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Trying to figure out the fertilization thing here. I agree that some lands are naturally fertile (or unaturally, depending on how you look at it) and that fertilizing said waters could cause big problems.

IF the water clarity is monitored, and only fertilized when clarity exceeds "X" inches, could that be a rule of thumb? (someone needs to fill in the "X" blank tho.)

Or are there other criteria that need to be figured into the equasion?


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If you are stocking 80 pound cats, IMO there is only one fish out there big enough and able to reproduce fast enough to feed them... The slimy, stinky gizzard shad.

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Rotting wood and mushrooms would lower the fertility by upping the acidity of the pond, which could be counteracted by liming if the alkalinity got below 20 ppm. What does your water look like when it hasn't just had 3.5 inches of rain? Right now it looks turbid, which is to be expected. If it doesn't get a nice green color to it during the warm months when it's not raining, then your pond may not be as fertile as another pond twenty or a hundred miles away. As Esshup noted, it's a pretty simple matter to measure visibility with a secchi disk, as you're aware of; if you have a plankton bloom that limits visibility to 18" or less, you don't need to fertilize. If your water typically stays clear enough to see more than 18" down, then your fish are not growing as fast as they could be with a plankton bloom, which could be achieved by fertilizing. Hope you grow some huge fish.

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Walt, when my existing pond hasn't had 3.5" of rain it has an oily film on top. Probably from the products of plant life decay. When and what would you recommend for fertilization for my new pond. I have forage coming in this Friday from Todd/Overton Fisheries.




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I've had the best luck with liquid fertilizer - it seems to produce better blooms for me, and seems to last longer in the pond than powder form. There are a few if not several different brands of liquid out there; probably any brand that's 10-46-0 or 10-52-0 would be fine. I'm sure Overton probably sells it so you might check with him; I get it from my local co-op and that's usually an option as well. Greg Grimes sells it on his website. The best time to start a program of fertilization is in the early spring when the water reaches around sixty or sixty-five degrees depending on who you ask; I just start in mid-March or the beginning of April.

The biggest key to avoiding a fish kill is just to not overdo it: if you have 18" or less visibility, don't fertilize again until the visibility goes above 18". In the spring you might have to fertilize four times in two months just to keep a bloom, especially the first year you implement it; but in the summer you might be able to go six weeks or more without fertilizing if you indeed have very fertile soil. And, if you were to install an aerator, that would be extra insurance against a kill. I fertilized for ten years on multiple ponds without a kill, though I did come close once on a four-acre pond that I probably over-fertilized that year (fertilized at least once when visibility was not beyond 18") when we had several days in a row of cloudy weather and a plankton die-off evidently occurred. I happened along just as the fish were piping at the surface and ran home and got my grandfather's V-bottom with 40-horse Johnson and rode around the lake for a couple hours, and no fish beyond the handful that had already died when I discovered the problem were lost. I never had an aerator but they are definitely extra insurance against a kill and one would be a great idea if it's feasible for you.

Since you live in Texas, you would probably want to tailor the program to the rainfall or lack thereof that's occurring at any given time: in wet seasons you could keep it at 18" or even a little under that (more water flushing through the pond makes the fertilizer last less time anyway), and then in a drought you might want to keep it at a little beyond 18"; one of the best hatcheries in the South recommends doing this in the summer to avoid situations like the one I once encountered.

The forage should do great in that new pond - that's where you're stocking them I take it? They'll have some time to orient without predation, and then next spring hopefully they'll get off a good spawn before you stock the bass.

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David

How is the dam holding up?

It looks good from the pictures.

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David, we had some 4 inches of rain a couple of days before yesterday and looked on radar as if rained all day yesterday.
Son Jeff said both our ponds are full and flowing through syphon spillways so should flush nutient buildup and good shape going into fall and winter.

We enjoy your pictures - keep them coming.
Great job on your pond.



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Lime, fertilizer, and forage are all tools utilized to reach goals. Generally speaking, without proper alkilinity in the soil, a pond can benefit from the addition of fertilizers to increase the planktonic base. However, some areas, the one I generally think of as pine tree country, need liming to allow the fertilizer to "take" for both crops and water holes. If the soil contains sufficient alkilinity to create a planktonic base on it's own, no fertilizer is needed and it's addition could have a negative effect on the environment being utilized. In other words, it can kill plant and animal life.

I particularly recall some land that I cleared in front of my house. It had been loaded with post oaks for many years; I guess forever. There had been the resulting leaf droppings and rotting during all of that time. I planted it in wheat and decided to fertilize. The wheat came up, looked beautiful and then died. I had burnt it up with the additional fertilizer. I have never fertilized since that time and my wheat has always looked as good as my neighbors who do fertilize. The difference is that they now have to fertilize to make a crop and I don't. The fertilizer has ruined their soil and now it won't grow anything without fertilizer. The history of farming is replete with worn out land due to artificial fertilization to increase yields. Admittedly, their protein levels are higher than mine but not by much.

OK, what does that have to do with water holes? I once bought into the fertilization mantra. I did it and my carrying capacity took a huge leap. Neighbors came by, took a look, and followed suit. Then we had a couple of still, cloudy days and every one of us had huge fish kills. It only takes 15 minutes. Those that didn't fertilize had no problem. I wasn't all that popular anymore and had to go back to buying my own beer. Mama Nature can be a cruel bitch and isn't to be messed with.

Walt, we can't count on flushing rains here and we do get still, cloudy days. Most of the Southern experts you may read recommendations from live in the Southeast and their experience just doesn't cut it here. I know quite a few pond professionals in this area and all are extremely cautious about recommending artificial water quality manipulation. Sometimes my visibility does go above 18 inches but, other than heavier forage predation which will rebound, the ponds seem to stay pretty well in balance and fertile from runoff(when it occurs). Last year, my visibility got too high and I added cottonseed meal a couple of times. It is all natural, small fish eat it and it very gently, over successive applications, increased the fertility base.

Natural fertility comes from the soil and there are variables in soil in any given area. It is possible that Davids soils could benefit from fertilization. If true, then the fertilizer won't take without first liming.

David, let the water settle for a couple of weeks until the rain effects of runoff and suspended soils have settled. Check the visibility. If it is between 18 and 24(or so) inches, you don't have a problem. Also, go to the TAMU website and look at the pond area. You will find instructions on getting them to do a water quality test. They will come back with recommendations for your specific pond. I might do that in the Spring after your new pond has lots of time to figure out it's balance.


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 Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Most of the Southern experts you may read recommendations from live in the Southeast and their experience just doesn't cut it here.


I linked earlier in this thread to a publication from Texas A&M, written by a fisheries specialist extension agent for them, that specifically, very clearly, strongly recommends fertilization for Texas ponds. So I did not give advice that is irrelevant to Texas. To say you personally advise against it, is completely valid; to suggest I gave uninformed or faulty advice is not accurate. A series of cloudy days in a row without sunshine happens in TN just like it does in TX; and, we do get periods some summers in which we go for months with little to no rain, flushing or otherwise. If a pond isn't over-fertilized, as I already noted, it won't result in a fish kill. I almost had a kill once out of ten years. And in that time my bluegill averaged twelve ounces in one pond I was fertilizing, and fourteen ounces in another pond, and neither pond was fed, and they were common northern-strain bluegill, not hybrids or coppernose. I don't care much about carrying capacity; I fertilize simply because it makes my fish far bigger than they would be without it. I personally would rather have huge fish with a small risk of a fish kill under atypical, uncommon circumstances, than much smaller fish with no risk. But that's just me.

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You just gonna keep arguing this until they bury you, Walt?


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 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus
You just gonaa keep arguing this until they bury you, Walt?

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get an aerator; it takes much of the pucker factor away. I keep a bloom, but not always 12-18 inches due to water loss in summer. I feed pretty regularly, until one of my cheap feeders clogs or the coons somehow get to it and destroy/or submerge it.
In ponds an acre or under I think you need a combination of feeding, monitoring alk. and bloom depth, aggressiveness of fish at feeder etc. to get things right. I am afraid that too heavy of bloom, especialy if you have cover, will just perpetuate too many small BG. I like the saucer BGs. Right now, I havae 3 species which all frequent the feeder, I like it that way, the lower water has also caused weeds and some cover to be dry.
Problem is, I now have fish that turn their nose up at worms at times. Need to order Stubby Steves(or make a panty hose pellet fly).


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Otto, so far so good. No leaks observed. How busy are you these days? May need some dirt moved.




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Walt, Texas is loaded with Extension Agents, most of who are local or regional, usually one to a County. I'm not saying that you didn't read it, but doubt that the writer was considering the variability of Texas soils. Texas is divided by 7 or 8 different types of ecosystems, none of which remotely resembles the other. They differ by both climates, crops and soils.

Again, I'm not saying that you didn't read it but TPWD and TAMU usually are very careful to recognize the regional and ecological differences regarding any type of agriculture or husbandry. I know a couple of the TAMU Prof's and have, on more than one occasion, discussed the regional variables regarding fish and wildlife propogation. If TAMU is teaching and advising that one size fits all, they are making a huge mistake.

Walt, started thinking and editing/adding here. The requirements for being an extension agent is 1. having a degree in Ag or horticulture or.... 2. Desiring to get a job. Most of them know about cattle, crops and maybe gardening. I've only met a couple that knew anything about ponds. I once had a pond problem and TAMU recommended that I call my Ex Agent and ask him/her. Then if they didn't know the answer, they could refer it on to TAMU. I did and never heard a thing. So, I networked around and found the name of one of the Profs there. I called him directly, asked the question related to my problem and he had never heard of it. However, he did request that I call him back if I discovered the solution.

My current EX Agent is a nice young lady who knows nothing about ponds. The NRCS guys are OK but most of them have been there (local) for quite awhile. And, even they know a lot less about raising fish than they do cows.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 10/14/09 06:11 PM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I certainly did read it; it recommended fertilization without qualification. The extension agent, as I noted twice previously, is listed as a fisheries specialist. I'll go out on a limb here and guess that that means he probably has a degree in fisheries science; in Tennessee you can't get a job as a fisheries biologist with the state unless you have a degree in fisheries science, and I would guess the same is true in Texas. He's not listed as a cattle agent, or a crops agent, and I doubt TAMU would have a cattle or crops agent write a publication for them on pond management. And he's not just the average joe agent, he's one that TAMU obviously considered enough of an expert to write a publication that they put their name on as their recommendations on the topic of pond management. Unless you think TAMU, which is the university Bob got his degree in fisheries science from, is haphazard enough to allow anyone at all to write a publication for them, I don't see much point in your line of reasoning. I know I'm certainly tired of arguing the point.

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The proper recommendation is to get your soil/water tested for pond purposes. Then you will know what if any limiting factor is present and can deal with it correctly. Then if your goals , as noted in the archive, are consistent with needing extra fertility you can decide on that option. Fertilization is a tool to be used in the proper situation with a full understanding of its application to your pond and goals. I would hate for any PB forum member to take a blanket fertilization recommendation and then call me to report a dense plankton bloom followed by a fish kill. Knowledge first then proper application of that knowledge to your situation and goals.
















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Thanks to you all for the fertilization discussion. TAMU is a fine institution with very qualified individuals to make recommendations on anything to do with agriculture related situations. My Alma Mater is a little south of TAMU and we beat them in football one year. Our fight song went like this:

e to the x dy/dx, e to the x dx, secant tan cosine sine 3.14159,
cube root, square root, BTU, lets drink beer, go Rice U!

It's pretty close, to the best of my fading memeory. The "lets drink beer" part I'm in doubt.

Fish are coming Friday from Todd w/ Overton. Will be sure to taks pics and post. I think I'll have him bring me some of those bulfrogs he advertises. I have a lot of frogs that get eaten by the bass. A few big ones would be a good addition I think.




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Ahh, the much feared Rice Owls.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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Well the big day came and went, sort of. Clint with Overton Fisheries arrived after noon to stock the forage base for my new pond. I had no idea that stocking forage in a pond would be such an adventure.

CNBG - 2700
RES - 800
Large (3"+)CNBG - 200
FHM - 35#'s

All the fish were alive and in good condition.

As a bonus, I got to pick Clint's brain for 6 hrs on fish and ponds and fertilization trucks and snakes and other topics.

The trip from Buffalo, TX is 135 miles. Well Clint made it 134 miles 5260 ft. The last 20' was just not going to happen as planned. Admittedly (by Clint)we should have listened to Ms. Boss on the proper route. (I don't know how many times I have heard it tonight and how many of her friends have heard it and how many times I will hear it again.)

The truck got stuck!!! And here is my better half saying "I told you so".



Well that didn't deter us from getting those fish out of the tank and putting them in their rightful place.

After trying the mule with winch, 8N with a fire hose (that snapped, knocking neighbor's doors( no one was home)and arriving to early at the barbeque smoker, we called out the big gun. Steve Tubbs w/ Tubb's Dozier Svc., the guys that built the pond graciously drove his tractor 45 minutes to give us a hand. Even brought some refreshements!

Overall, I was very pleased with the service provided by Clint and Todd with Overton Fisheries. Will call them in the spring for the predators, LMB and possibly HSB.

Here are some pics from today.

Unlodaing the "old fashioned way"


Where's the fish?


Afetr a little slight of hand. Here it is!


My little 8N didn't stand a chance pulling this behemoth out. The fire hose is history.


Help arrives.



Let's get it off that tree


Looks like we won't be camping tonight.


All is good at the new pond.


Overall, I had a great time. A little adversity is fun as long as you overcome. Thanks for all the input from you Pondmeisters out there. Will be asking for more in the future.




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Great post, thanks for sharing...

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It at least one thing doesn't go awry during a pond project then you're doing something wrong. Great stuff thanks for sharing.


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An update. The new pond is full and water is running out the overflow. Inordinate amounts of rain in E. Texas this Fall.

Well I guess I didin't get rid of beaver. Dammed up the overflow of the exisitng pond.



Here is his home on the banks of old pond



Some pics of new pond. Note center of dam is lower. Reason being is that after consultation with those in the know, the dam builders deepened the shallows on the sides and put the dirt on the sides of the dam.




Just got a new "bridge" over creek in back.

My surveying wasn't too bad. Stick was at full level which it is now.


Does anyone have a beaver trap that they would sell, rent loan or come trap the varmit? Must be a pretty good size one as that cedar tree in the dam is 4" in diameter at the base. He has since built two other small dams to stop the run off from the overflow of the new pond. They just can't stand running water.




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DavidV:

I've got a couple here that I could send down to you to use, but you'll need to buy a setting tool to compress the springs. Or, look below at the link on where to get them (the traps & tool). If you have beaver now, you might want to purchase a few (maybe even 3 or 4) because more beaver will find your place once these are gone. It's hard to play musical runs when you only have one or 2 traps and there are more places to set them, just ask Cecil. ;\)

DON'T set them on dry land. They will kill anything that tries to go thru them, no if's ands, or buts, even deer. My largest beaver that I trapped weighed in @ 70 Lb., and he was going slow, so the trap caught him right behind the head. Other than springing, the trap never moved, and neither did he. I prefer the #330 or #330-2 Onedia Victor Conibear for beaver. I set them in the underwater run as they leave the den and stabilize them with a couple pieces of #4 rebar or dead sticks. If their run is smaller than the trap is wide (10"), I'll switch size down to a #280. Be VERY, VERY careful setting and placing them, and don't forget to take off the safety catch, making sure that it doesn't catch once is starts to snap. If you educate the beaver, it will be a real bear to trap them.

I'll use a tool that I made to place them after the safety catch is off. (a hook on the end of a shovel handle) I'm leery of them, but have never had one go off on me. I did have my fingers pinched pretty good in a #110 (it hurt worse because they were cold), and I learned my lesson. Make sure that you get them wired to something solid as well, I've caught beaver across their hind quarters, and while they died, they sure tried to take the trap with them as they fought it. I can't imagine how fast they must have been going when they sprung the trap.
How to set a #330-2 Conibear Trap

Trapping Supplies (including traps)


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Been out of the forum for a while. Economy is not the best. But here is a pic of some kids having fun. I think I will let the new pond be a BG pond. Many minnows and the "perch" are biting my swimmers. It is very entertaing. Biting men on the nipples. I feed twice per day.





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Went out last weekend to sight in a TC Icon and the trampoline above was gone!! Found it behind the dam. The "tornado" broke the 1800lb test nylon mooring rope. A sight to see a 17' trampoline with extras flying over the dam.

Last edited by DavidV; 11/03/10 09:54 PM.



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David, I hope it was depopulated when it got airborne.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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No one was airborne. But it really was a blessing in disguise as it would have been a b***h to un-anchor and haul that trampoline to the shore. No leaks or holes.

Didn't fit in the original packaging however. Imagine that.

Put 20 bass from the old pond into the new. See them chasing minnows at the shorline.

Bluegill are doing great.

Beavers still there frown




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Ponds are doing well. Fish are growing. Erected a small pavilion last year in front of the original pond. Had a bad FA prob this year but put Cutrine to handle. Cattails have arrived, ugh. Had some rains this Spring which filled both ponds. We are enjoying our land and ponds. Here a couple pics.







Last edited by DavidV; 06/26/12 01:04 AM.



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Beautiful pavilion, the LMB looks healthy and it seems like the kids are having a blast! The tornado didn't damage the float at all when it went sailing?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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No damage. Actually a blessing as it is hard to get it out of the pond. Had to pull the trampoline with a string across the pond. Clean it with a brush and then "kite" it back to a new resting position and drop the 75lb anchor. PITA! Got a cattail issue now, any suggestions?




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If you want to kill the cattails, use an aquatic labeled glyphosate with a wetting agent like cide-kick. Cut the catkins off of them so the seeds don't blow all over the place and spray 'em. You might have to hit them again, but they'll die pretty quick.


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I have Reward with cide kick. Man that stuff is scary. I will suit up and spray.




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Haven't posted for a while. Would have liked to have attended the event at Lake Ray Hubbard but couldn't. Here is a fish that was 12" in my old pond 4 yrs ago that I put in the new pond. My wife caught it and she was thrilled with the growth.




Last edited by DavidV; 03/27/15 10:19 PM.



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Nice fish David; tell her congrats.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Fantastic and a great place.

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Nice fish, DavidV! I have young grandkids, so I like seeing what you've done to make it fun for the younger set. They aren't always interested in fishing, especially if it takes more than 60 seconds to get a bite. smile

By the way, I am a Rice grad as well. Yes, I was there when we whipped the Aggies, it was totally wild! The MOB (Marching Owl Band for non-Owl readers) saluted the A&M dog mascot Reveille at halftime by forming a giant fire hydrant formation and marching to the tune, "Oh Where oh Where Has My Little Doggie Gone?"

Good times. The Aggies scored late to go ahead, and their cheerleaders went wild. Reveille sprang up to bark his approval, as well. But then we ran the kickoff back for the game winning TD, much to the consternation of A&M supporters everywhere! (I couldn't tell for sure, but it looked like Reveille embarrassed himself right there on the field.) laugh

The Aggies didn't appreciate the game nor the band's homage to Reveille. In fact, police vans were needed to carry the MOB out from the stadium after the game. Dog lovers can get a little testy sometimes, but I still think their bark is worse than their bite.

Last edited by anthropic; 03/28/15 12:22 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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^^^ That was an unforgettable game. My youngest had her 16th birthday at our place today. Had 17 of her schoolmates there! (Ms. Boss has been toiling about this party for weeks). They are camping in tents tonight. Many of her friends (urbanites) have never been fishing, four wheeling, canoing, etc. until today. While I was working on the fish feeder after an apparent hog attack, I witnessed a great happening. Those kids that had never fished caught fish and you should have heard them celebrate. Too squeamish to unhook so my daughter helped them with that. Made me feel pretty good.




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Originally Posted By: DavidV
Those kids that had never fished caught fish and you should have heard them celebrate. Too squeamish to unhook so my daughter helped them with that. Made me feel pretty good.


That is awesome stuff right there. smile

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you do not see may kids get in the back of a police caring a fishing pole and tackle box ---let the kids fish

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Been away for a while. Ponds are doing well. Enlarged one and made some mountains and stocked with Halibut. Here is a pic. LOL

Just got back from Alaska.





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We hope to go there next yearr


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Nice Texas flounder!

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