Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations New pond(s), lots of questions

I own a small piece of property in east-central Ohio. The terrain is relatively flat with a creek bottom on the eastern half. There is an old artesian well pipe that moves a good bit of ground water to the surface from late winter to early summer.

There is a 4-5 acre opening where that water would just lay and the ground stayed wet almost year round. I've been improving the property for deer and turkey the last few years and I wanted to clean up this wet area and have more control over it.

Last year I decided to put a rubber collar/boot on the old well pipe and clamped it to a section of pipe that ran to the stream. This worked out great and by July, the wet area was dry enough to work on. I was able to get a machine in there an build a road through that part of the property along with some food plots.

This spring, I learned that the pipe is great for draining the water eventually but this area is still useless in late winter through early summer. Being a creek bottom, I also noticed another supply of water early in the year is storm run off from the culverts dumped on my property from the road and possibly stream overflow during spring.

I had the idea to excavate a long, narrow, winding pond or maybe multiple ponds through here and use the spoil to elevate fields and a road bed so I can use the ground more effectively and year round. I was thinking that this would solve my problem.

Obviously I'm looking at ponds to solve my water problems. I wouldn't mind getting a spot or two deep enough for bass either though while I'm at it.

Now, money is an issue and I have used enough small equipment that I rented over the years to build roads and food plots. I'm perfectly comfortable in a skid steer or small back hoe/loader. I am also limited to what I can pull with my 3/4 ton truck. There is always the option of delivery from the rental yard but it is pricey.

Would I be getting ahead of myself to think a 70 HP compact track loader and me on it all weekend could build a small pond or ponds for what I described above? Or should I consider renting something different? I can get the above machine from Friday afternoon until Sunday night/Monday morning for $400.

Yes, I could probably come up with a few grand to hire someone but I'd obviously rather do it myself. I'm not looking for any award winning pondscape, just something functional to solve the runoff problem and provide some fishing opportunities.

-Brian

Welcome to the forum Stickbow... Certainly an art that is being lost with the times. Any photos of bows you have crafted?

I don't have the answers to your questions, but others will be along shortly and will be able to give you some good first hand answers. There are lots of guys on here from OH and a few from PA. Much of my family is from PA and we have hunting land in Bedford Co, where abouts in PA are you?

Welcome to Pond Boss Brian! I haven't done that in a long time ..
What kind of acerage are you talking about for the pond/s & how deep are you wanting to go?
Dangit CJ you beat me to it.

Stickbowcrafter .. I like that handle. Someday I have plans to make my own bow, arrows, & points & take a deer with it.

Stickbowcrafter:

Welcome! Do you have an idea how large and how deep the pond(s) will be when finished? If we know that, we'll be able to give you a more accurate answer.

Also, how far from the pond(s) do you plan on moving the dirt?

Thanks. Yes, I will post some pics of my bows next time I'm at the desktop, don't think I have any on my iPhone. I live west of Pittsburgh near the airport, only 15 minutes from the OH/WV line. My property is located in Guernsey Co. Ohio.

Ric, I'm thinking at least an acre, maybe more depending on how I ultimately lay it out. I read somewhere that I'll need at least 6-7 foot deep area 25,000 sq ft minimum for fish to survive the winter. Is this correct?

The area is flat so the spoil will be used to elevate the ground around the ponds, won't be moving it far.

-Brian

6-7 probably would do, if you can maintain water levels and don't crowd the fish... I think 10 foot would be a better bet though.

I'm about 30 miles South of the Michigan/Indiana border and with 6-7 foot water depth I experienced winterkill without aerating. I agree, 10' depth would be a lot better, also the pond will fill in a bit over the years and 10' initial depth could become 6-7' relatively quickly depending on how much erosion you get.

I would think alot is going to depend on the orientation of the pond if it's long & narrow to take advantage of natural wind aeration. Like esshup & CJ said a 10' refuge area would be wise to avoid winter kill .. how big that area should be I'll defer to them.
Don't forget to pile your topsoils to the side to be used to spread over the levie after built.
Do you intend to use the artesian well as a water source? If so how will you incorporate it into the build?

Ok, makes sense to go ahead and make it 10 feet deep in some places. Yes, I plan to use the artesian well to fill the pond. Since it's flat, I just figured I could excavate up to the well pipe then disconnect my drain pipe when the pond is ready to be filled.

What I'm trying to end up with is fields running east and west and a long, narrow pond or ponds between them. The west winds should be enough to provide natural aeration.

Anyone have any thoughts on using a compact track loader for this job?

-Brian

My pond renovation - pic heavy

You can see the equipment that I used, and it took a few months working every day after work and on weekends. The biggest problem was moving all the dirt away from the pond. This pond is roughly 2x as deep as you are thinking of going. It's about 1 3/4 surface acres when at full pool. What isn't shown is a 6 or 7 yd dump truck that I had for a week or so, and an 8' bladed dozer that I rented for a weekend. I also sold 12 semi-loads of soil as well.

To give you a good idea on whether the compact tractor or track loader will work, more info is needed. i.e., what type of soil, how far will you be moving the dirt, what size will the pond be (width, length and depth). You can figure it out roughly, by taking the width, length and average depth to get a cu. yd. of dirt, and see how big the bucket is. How many trips will you need to make?

I believe Otto said if moving dirt <50 yds., a dozer was the quickest. Past that a pan scraper was the most cost effective equipment if you have the room to turn it around.

Other factors in how fast the pond can be dug are: Type of soil,
will you run into any water, and are there many rocks in the soil. Also, you'll never know what "treasures" you'll run into!

Just remember, you are an absentee pond owner. When you get a foot of snow on 6" of ice for an extended period of time, west winds won't matter and you'll end up with a winter fish kill. Depth is going to be important for winter survival and a lack of artificial aeration.

I won't be moving the excavated dirt very far. Like I said above, I'd like to build up the area around the pond since it is flat and damp in late winter through early summer. I also can use the dirt for other fill around the property. Definitely will not be hauling any dirt away.

Good point CJB, after hearing the input here and further investgation, it certainly makes sense to get to a depth of 10 feet in at least one large area of the pond.

Sounds like I have my work cut out for me.

-Brian

If you decide to go the do it yourself route, make sure you read up on the parts of a dam. There are several great on-line resources for just that. I can barely run my dad's Kubota let alone large equipment so I couldn't do it myself, but to have to skills to run large equipment would be very rewarding and possible save some cash.

OK, I am impatiently waiting for the photos of your bows! Do you build long and recurve or just long bows?

Thanks again CJB. OK I'm at the desktop, I'll try to post some pictures for you...

Here's one of my latest experiments, a 3-piece take down with hidden bolts that come in from the belly (side facing archer):



This bow is almost all cocobolo wood, riser (handle) & limbs.




Here's a one piece longbow with bamboo laminations under clear fiberglass with a Zebrawood handle. You can see these are not child's toys...



I also love all wood bows like the Native Americans use to build and depend their lives on. This is a one piece hickory bow from a hickory tree in my hunting grounds. It is designed and decorated in the Seneca style. The Senecas hunted the same places I love to roam so I thought it was appropriate.



The handle is from a piece of deer hide from one of my harvests that I tanned and it is tied on with deer leg sinew.



Trying to find some recurve pics for you...been doing this for a few years so there should be a pile more pics somewhere...

-Brian

Very nice work. Thanks for posting those pics.

Great stuff stickbow! Some fine craftsmanship... I've killed a few deer over the years with a compound but never did the traditional archery thing. One of these days I am gonna break down and go that route...

Man, those are beautiful!

Very nice job SBC!
I have a piece of Osage Orange I hope to make into a longbow. Cut it from a tree in Ok. It sure was hard to find a straight piece long enough.

Thanks. Ric, you got yourself one of the best bow woods in the world. I have made quite a few Osage bows over the years. Toughest part is like you said, finding a straight enough section on those trees. There are ways to steam it straight and ways to splice two smaller sections at the handle.

Thanks for all the advice. I think I just need to make a plan, get a machine and start digging a pond. I'm sure it will take longer than expected but that's ok.

- Brian

Take pictures and keep us posted of your progress...

Hey Stickbowcrafter, Beautiful bows... I have a friend who makes those and also knaps his own points. Knapping is also a rare art too.

Osage is his favorite wood too.

Very rare! Now that would be a challenge... Take a deer with a long bow, wooden arrows and a knapped stone broadhead!

Why don't you just stampede them into a gully and drop big rocks on them?

HERE KITTY KITTY

Stick: Before you settle on your exact site and dimensions and rent equipment buy a copy of "Perfect Pond: Want One" by our leader Bob Lusk. It will be invaluable in deciding what, where and how to build. The book is available through this website and also on Amazon.com.

Bing