Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Soil questions Walmart Special Kitty litter = clay

Searched everywhere for bentonite. Found a source 100 miles off in Birmingham, AL $12 for 50lb bags. Not good yet I needed a modest amount to supplement a DB-200 polymer treatment I'm trying. Then, the next day I find an ag store less than 5 miles away sells it for $10. Then I break out 2 25lb kitty litter bags I bought last summer and compared 'em with the bentonite.

Bentonite (benseal) small granular, spreads easily $10-$12per50lb

regular(red bag)
Special Kitty litter medium chips(2.5X's size of benzil)$6per50lb

premium (yellow bag)
Special Kitty litter med chips (2.5X's size of benzil) $8per50lb

The litter comes in 25lb bags piled up on pallets in Walmarts around Northern Alabama and also my primary residence back in Bakersfield California. I don't know it's purity but when I mix water with it in my hand, it swells and feels the same. The only difference I could see with the premium kitty litter was it had perfumy speckles. I think the $2.78 regular litter would work as well and it's a dollar per bag less.

Seems a while back someone else around Alabam was looking for bentonite. If Walmart can get clay based Special Kitty litter and with all their marketing might, sell it for less, then folks may have an alternative to expensive shipping for bentonite. Wonder if you could go in to Walmart, talk to a supervisor, drive around back and have a forklift load a pallet into your truck? Just thinking out loud.

This line of thinking isn't researched or verified, so do your own homework before investing.

Good research, SoSauty. Was that the clumping or regular litter?
You know that special fired clay that was so overpriced and used to lace the tops of potted plants got run out of business by kitty litter; which did the same thing. Soak up extra moisture, and release it when the dirt got dry.

Reminds me of the Firestone rubber pond liners in some aquaculture and Koi pond supply catalogs. The catalogs said something to the effect," Do not use the rubber that is used on roofs as it has chemicals in it that can kill your fish. It is not the same thing." Funny thing is the stuff used on roofs that looks exactly the same says it's safe for aquatic life. Only downside is it's not usually available at the building supply stores in pieces over 6 feet in diameter.

Who's kidding who here?

Rather than clay, we use pelletized sawdust for kitty litter. After use it gets dumped over the backyard fence into the cows' permanent run.

The old sawdust kitty litter spots are absolutely the best place to shock up nightcrawlers and worms for bait!

The clumping kitty litter I have examined appears to be 99.9% bentonite.

Compare kittylitter to floordry.I do believe its the same thing without the perfume.

Burgermeister; it clumps nicely when my cats piddle on it.

hey---any further reviews on this idea of using walmart kitty litter in the place of well driller quality bentonite? i'd really like to know if it works and anybody really tried using it. thanks

Have not tried it.

Never even thought of trying it. It would be interesting to do a side by side test.

Not having a ready source of bentonite I "tested" as follows:

1) I picked up 4 plastic storage containers about 12x12
2) Drilled about 1/2" holes in the bottom of containers
3) Filled each with about 5" of native soil from pond area
4) One "A" container was used for baseline and nothing was added.
One "B" container 1" layer of bentonite was added on top
One "C" container 1" layer of special kitty was added on top
One container "D" had 1" layer special kitty mixed in
in with the native soil

5) all filled to top with water

results: Container "A" leaked the fastest followed by Container "D".

6) added an additional 1" of material to containers B-D
still leaked, but much slower

7) added another 1" of material to containers B-D

Now I was looking for zero leakage, but after 2", water was only leaking a little bit.

So now I have a total of 3" of material either on top of soil or mixed in. Container D seems to leak slightly, but leakage stopped on both other containers..

I also tried this using 2 other kitty litters but they didn't really work to well.

Best of all was the water was clearer in the special kitty container. As an added bonus I had called the manufacturer and they even sent me a coupon for free litter so I could do the test.

Promise it won't soak up all the water in my pond?

Saddiegirl, outstanding experiment and posting of the results. I am sure this will be beneficial to a lot of us with seeping ponds. Was the additional material added as it was in the initial trial? ie, A with additional bentonite on top, D with additional Kitty litter mixed in, and C with additional litter on top? What were the results with C, or did D have additional product added on top. Lastly, were the last tests with new dry soil?

again thanks.

Agreed with Burger. You are on a scale with our PB resident mad scientist, Dr Frankondello. (Ewest, please insert pic)
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Since you had good results with a couple of products, it would be logical to mix up similar amounts of the litter with the soil and try it again to compare the sealing/leakage. As you probably already know, normal practice for bentonite application is to blend it with the soil.

Some DB100 would be interesting in a 5th container.

Saddiegirl, your sort of testing provides extremely helpful info. I don't know how our father's generation managed country living without the internet. Guess now we can all be 'Hobby Homesteaders' and 'Pond Meisters

Perhaps Special Kitty litter can be an alternative. Great follow up. a 1-3" layer doesn't sound bad. Genrally, a pond ought to have 12-24". (DB??)

Good idea Dave, wish I had kept some DB-100 around to do this type of test. Maybe someone else has some left over or maybe the Pond Doctors would provide a sample for these types of tests. Would be real interesting to see what the results are.

Thanks for the work.
How much does the kitty litter cost?

agree thanks for the work--would like to know results of db100 if you do the test or similar test--my pond is leaking too--cleaned out 2' of bottom and lined with 2' clay--still leaks--found soft places back of the dam and some water (where everything else was dry)---section of dam is about 100yards long 6 to 8ft high--am thinking of renting small trac hoe and digging every 10 to 15' to see if i can determine more about leakage--still will probably look at trenching and packing clay and trying to tie it in to the 2' of clay we already did. may try adding bentonite/kitty litter/to clay in trench--also may try spraying it down with db100 to seal trench--any other suggestions?? or ideas? have spent too much money on this to redig entire dam and recore --i'll fill it in first. thanks
p.s. i also mixed in 96x50lb bags bentonite ($1143) to what we thought was likely the most problem areas in my pond bottom.
so how much is special kitty for 50lb? 35k invested so far andi get sick thinking of the swimming pool i could have had for that amount. thanks again

ga pond rookie

You and I are working on the same problem. Seven out of ten times that the phone rings it is about seepage.

Lets keep working on the soultion.

Otto

hi otto--i priced special kitty and it is app. 1/2 the price of the bentonite i bought from a well company last year so i may try a combination of special kitty (SK) and db100 if i can determine it is actually 95% bentonite (it wasn't on bag i looked at--2.78/25lb in ga) --i don't particularly like the idea of having super slick pond dam walls --for sure i need to formulate a plan and get materials lined up by mid-aug. as my spring usually starts running good in oct/nov.-- my thoughts are that i'd be best served to tie my efforts in with the 2' of clay i already put in pond bottom and work on the face side of the dam although it's steep in places --i am thinking about digging out a "mini-core" trench with a back hoe or trencher and mixing SK/my soil and treating it with db100 as i put it back in the trench--then till or rake in sk+db200 on face of dam and lastly spray db 100 over juncture of 2'clay and my new effort and up possible 2 to 3' on face of dam. how's that sound? i would welcome any suggestions---i see at the beginning of this thread someone compared bentonite with SK and priced it also.

I thought I posted but must have screwed up.If Im not mistaken,shop floor dry is the same thing as kitty litter,except is doesnt have oder control(perfume) for the cats.And its considerably cheaper.

tom g--thanks where do you buy it? i have two walmarts near me that i can buy the S.kitty as much as i can haul. thanks for info if can locate shop floor dry i'll check it out. otto--any thoughts on my plan of correction? curious how you would approach this problem---thanks all.

ga pond rookie
we have been short-handed in the office the last couple of days- but will be back on track today.
call me or I will call you and spend some time on the phone.
Otto

i may use some kitty litter with db-200 mixed between existing pond bottom clay liner and "mini-core" i'm going to try to put in---then will see what results will be--i don't think it will hurt anything--i will post future mentions of any success/failure on the pond boss thread "pond holding water" under the "soil questions" section --- so as to keep from repeating myself. thanks.

Do not worry about repeating your self---If you find the CURE everyone will need to know.

I found bentonite powder in 50 lb bags for 5.90 per bag. bought all but 4 bags (1500 lb) saturday. it was purchased at Cherokee Farmers COOP in Centre, AL. They said they will have more this week in the amount of 2000 lbs.

I spread it most on banks and some in water and sprayed 6 gallon db100 on banks and in water. will update success notes thread on progress in a few days .

sure hope it slows my leak!!

keep us posted Thanks

results on lining my pond bottom with 2 ft of good clay is that the pond holds well now (after dropping 6ft or so) and pond evaporation is finally the same as in insulated comparison bucket for test. i am now down to a level where the water is held by the new bottom thus the similar evaporation. in the next month or so i will proceed to put a 2 to 3' wide core in my dam face that will extend app. 3' below the bottom of the pond-- i will use similar good clay and mix in some db200. then will rake in some db200 + kitty litter mix between the water level in pond and the new core (app. 2 to 3') simply as a precaution or added benefit. good luck to all --will continue to post any results or problems as they develop. as i haven't seen any definite results from DB products posted i will do this basic pond repair with some assist from the db products.

GA, you may want to extend the clay on the face all the way to the top of the dam. I have a spot about 8 feet long that was raised and couldn't extend the clay in that area only. Now it is collapsing were the water seep through.

ga pond rookie
You can change your name from rookie to expert.

Thanks for keeping us posted.

Bought a bag of the red Walmart Special kitty litter last night ($2.78/bag in Arkansas)to experiment with. The "ingredient" listing just includes "Ground Clay". Elsewhere on the bag is verbiage saying "All Natural" and "Fragrance Free and Highly Absorbant". There is no manufacturer listed on the bag, just says "Marketed by Wal-Mart".

I soaked some of the product in water overnight to see what it would do. Its been 24 hours now, and there is no visible swelling of the individual granuals and many of granules are still hard. The stuff wouldn't roll into any kind of a decent thread. I'm thinking this stuff has to be calcium bentonite or some other kind of less active clay. The Benseal (Sodium Bentonite) we use for drilling at work swells visibly and softens up very quicky.

While this stuff may have some ability to decrease the permeability of a pond, I don't believe it is going to swell enough to seal up leaks the way sodium bentonite has the potential to do.

Anybody else experimented with the stuff lately?? Definitely not intending to dispute the information provided by the original poster, SoSauty, as there very well could be different sources of clay used regionally for the product or the source could have changed since 2006. Just curious if anybody else has tried using this stuff as a cheap source of bentonite lately and what their experiences may be??

I might also add that the kitty litter acted very similar to some Oil-Dri floor absorbant that I also experimented with. The Oil-dri will last through several rains on a driveway without swelling noticably or softening up the way Benseal or Bentonite chips would. They must be a similar type of very porous but relatively unreactive variety of clay.

otto,rainman,and all--i surely am no expert as would not be in the mess i'm in with my pond if i were. with the floods in ga. my pond is full to the brim and will not be able to attempt pond fix until next summer when it drops low again---thus i have to store my kitty litter and pond sealer db-200 until next summer. if anyone has any luck with either of the above please post. i still plan on digging a new mini-core and using red ga. clay in it to try and solve the main problem--my pond sure does look pretty when it's full--and my bluegill seem to be having a wonderful time. like an old fisherman friend of mine wrote in one of his books to me "he never caught much fish but always ate well"---my bluegill seem to take after me---they are eating me out of house and home. i can't believe they grow that much in one year. thanks all----i will check in again soon.

GPR, good to hear your pond is full and fish doing well.
As far as positive results with DB100 it reduced the leak in my dam about 70%, but it hasn't reduced it anymore than that, even after putting in the last 1 1/2 gallons of product.
The product definitely does have merit but I guess the leak in my dam is too large for it to totally stop, or maybe more than 6 gallons is required to stop it.
I'll wait till spring and see how things are and maybe add more of the product, the real fix is too expensive right now but might be the only way to go when I can save up the funds.
I remember someone posting that they were going to have an improved product, has anyone heard anything?

Hey guys,
This link may shed some light on the Kitty Litter question.

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/8217kitty.html

Some more on kitty litter. If part of the manufacturing process is drying the product by firing it. Wouldn't it stand to reason the clay will stay hard and still be able to absorb moisture?

Hawg, was the litter yo bought the "clumping" type? I wonder if that would explain your litter not softening..........

No, it was just the plain litter, not the clumping type.
The clumping kind is more expensive than just buying the 100% bentonite from a farmer's coop or drilling supply company.

It was suggested on here a day or two ago that maybe the firing process used in the litter manufacturing hardens the clay, making it more porous, but reducing its swelling potential. I think that guy may be right.

well we may not be pond experts but we are quickly becoming experts on kitty litter---very interesting article JMC posted above---i have some db200 and walmart special kitty so i may try a couple of buckets --one plain litter and one db200+kitty litter about 1:10 (suggestions?) and water--then see what it does after 1 day, 1 week, 2 weeks. i would think even "fired" kitty litter would soften over enough time under water may not though as clay pots lasted a long time but i would doubt kitty litter would "fired" to that extent. still not sure if i'll use it or not---if i have to dig red ga. clay and use it then i may as well use it instead of kitty litter/bentonite. thanks all.

Anyone got a friend in India? They got a huge mine there. I wonder if they'd ship bulk if there was enough people interested.

>>Ashapura Exports Pvt. Ltd.<<

There's also an US Company, American Colloidal Company, and they do bulk ordering.

What do you need that for? You have alot of cats?

the thought on kitty litter was to use it as inexpensive type of bentonite---after putting some in a bucket and wetting and trying to mold it--it does not appear to be very good sealer material---i also put small amount 1/4 teaspoon of db200 in 16oz cup with 1/2 inch water and let sit for a day--that small amount of db200 formed about 1/8" of slime across bottom of cup so i have high hopes for it's sealing/swelling abilities--as mentioned before db200 does get extremely slippery when wet so i plan on when i use it to sandwich it between two layers of red clay. i am presently running an experiment on red clay/db200/red clay vs. red clay/db200+kitty litter/redclay to see if any difference in seepage at all---i will post the results here as well as describe what i am doing after i get a weeks results. i plan on attempting work on pond dam in late august--was planning on repair mid sept last year but got too much rain so will wait till pond is lowest in august and then try so i don't lose all my fish by draining again. my 2nd contractor lined the bottom of the pond with about 2ft red clay but did not line the dam face (which i regret not requiring at least 1/2 of it to be lined as well). will keep pond boss readers posted. otto keep an eye out on this thread please--as per our previous conversations last year i am now leaning towards trying to tie into the bottom pond liner with more lining the face of the dam rather than my original thoughs of a re-core. the bottom liner appears to have greatly improved things just i think it was not taken up the dam high enough. thanks all