Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose stocking crappie

I posted a couple of days ago about how many crappie would someone stock in a half acre pond and was basicaly ignored. I don't know if they are a sore subject with you folks but, I just wanted a little advise, input.. I guess you people just have had some bad experiences or something. Theres tons of small ponds up here in NY that have both black and white crappie and don't seem to have the problems you post. I guess it might be because, we fish and manage our ponds on a regular basis ... I just thought I'de let you know that it can be done if you are willing to put in the time. Thanks for all the information.

Kristoffer, most of us have 2 possible answers for your question; neither one does you any good:

1. None.

2. I don't know.

IIRC NOBODY knows how to consistently manage Crappie in small ponds. We've talked about it a lot here. (If you haven't done a search for "Crappie" and read those threads, do so. You can see the extent of our interest and ignorance.) Crappie are probably the fish we would overall most like to know a lot more about managing. We have plenty of people who love to fish for and eat Crappie. We even have case studies of small ponds where Crappie have done well and not been a problem, but I don't think we really understand WHY.

I am sure that you (or another capable, interested party with enough available time) can make Crappie work in a small pond; perhaps you can be the one to formula-ize Crappie management and make the results reproduceable for all. Give it a go, keep records, and let us know what happens (good or bad).

If you want a real WAG, I'd stock 20-25 adults or maybe 100 juveniles for 1/2 acre.

Kris-
I'm no expert, but one reason why I haven't had any advice for you is because I've never stocked crappie in a small pond before. I honestly wouldn't have any idea how many per acre to stock. Since they are technically a predator, I'm guessing you'd want a # per acre more in-line with, say, LMB than forage fish. Given their unpredictable spawning, it is also hard to say how many would be too much or too little in the beginning. You could have a huge spawn and have a lot of fishing to do in a very short time, or possibly have no spawn at all.

I'm guessing that because of their overall unpredictability in small waters, it is hard for anyone to give you a definitive answer on stocking rates.

I think you are right about managing your pond. If you were to fish it on a regular basis, you could manage a small pond for crappie without problems. Management would also depend what other types of predators you have, what your goals are wrt size and numbers of crappie, and what type and numbers of forage base you have. If you're willing to make it work, then it should work. I would work backwards, based on your goals, and then guess at how many and what size crappie you think your pond can sustain as stockers.

Maybe you can become the expert on this subject and teach us what type of stocking rates worked best for you. I honestly would be very curious to know what you find. Our next pond will be a HSB/Crappie pond, and we'll be experimenting with stocking numbers just like you. I'll also be curious how your white and black crappie do together and what types of numbers you end up with.

Edit: As usual, Theo said most of what I was thinking and did it better...

I realy apreciate your responses, I guess I just felt like what the heck? I just wanted to know what people would recomend. I will share all info and I think more people shouldn't be so dan* scared about stocking crappie. White or Black it is just a fish and can ba managed with fishing and a little bit of intelagence. I have read every thread that I have found posted through pond boss and still seem to have my own opinions and wonders why people have so much trouble and problems with crappie, white or black? I will be here to the end to let you know of my outcome of my pond. I just feel that people are scared about them and for what reason if managed? I am sorry if I have afended anyone or if I am out of line.

Theo, I rated you high due to your knowledge and time spent here on the form. I feel that you are a very smart man but, I still have to ask a question here and there regaurdless of whats been posted in the past due to state, climate, elevation, areation, feed, ect.. I realy think that the crappie can work if you manage with fishing and large mouth bass. I was wondering if I sent you some pics of my pond if you could post them for me? I tried the photo bucket and things just didn't work out. If you don't know by now, I don't have alot of patience...lol

From what I understand the biggest problem with crappie is the unpredictable spawn. Need a hybrid crappie, sterile or nearly so.

Take a look at this from the archives.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000007

We put 50 fingerling crappie in our 1 acre pond along with tons of fatheads and channel cats. We were told that dead crappie dont float? and you need the cats to keep your pond clean. Don't know but we did it anyways. We are 1 year from breeding size and are planning on fishing it alot to keep the balance in check. We are planning on adding fatheads yearly to give them a good foodsource. Dont know if it is correct but that is what we were advised to do by some friends.

Hey!
Some great ideas are beginning to surface.

The Benefits of NON-REPRODUCING FISH.

HSB- As a manageable predator, sport fish and eating fish.

BG – Male only as a manageable sport and eating fish.

YP – Female only for manageable sport and eating fish

Triploid grass carp - As a vegetation manager.

Tilapia- Stocked in northern climates for vegetation management but with the added possible bonus of dying out as not to overpopulate.

Triploid Trout- Large growth potential, longer living and no egg suffocation.

Why not a triploid crappie????? Great sport fish with some excellent eating qualities.
(Fish breeders, is this possible?)

Cattlemen learned along time ago that steers and spayed heifers were the critter of choice for feedlots.

Just a thought,
Ed

Ed, Lusk talked about triploid Crappie in one of the threads ewest linked. IIRC there has not been enough commercial demand (for Crappie period, let alone triploids) to justify the research and development expenses.

I agree a lot of us would be interested in them if they were available.

Burger brought up the research first and I went and found it. There are hybrid crappie with lower fecundity and some (?) triploid ( research). TPW has some triploid LMB that they won't share. Also many fish species can be sex reversed to all male or all female including some tilapia. From http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000402#000002 Lusk and Burger's comments are there.


Comparisons of Triploid and Diploid White Crappies
GLENN R. PARSONS

Freshwater Biology Program, Department of Biology, The University of Mississippi, University, Mississippi 38677, USA

Abstract.—I produced triploid white crappies Pomoxis annularis in the laboratory by subjecting stripped eggs to 5°C for 90 min. This treatment produced triploids on three out of seven attempts, yielding 92%, 93%, and 100% triploids. I compared several hematological characteristics of adult triploid and diploid white crappies. Triploids had significantly lower concentrations of circulating red blood cells and hemoglobin than diploids but their red blood cells had significantly greater volumes and hemoglobin contents. Diploids had significantly higher gonadosomatic indices. Diploids and triploids did not differ significantly in heart weight as a percentage of body weight or in standard metabolic rate, active metabolic rate, or critical swimming speeds. Despite the hematological differences, nonreproductive triploid white crappie adults appear to be as fit for survival as normal diploid fish.


Comparison of Triploid Hybrid Crappie and Diploid White Crappie in Experimental Ponds
GLENN R. PARSONS

Department of Biology, The University of Mississippi, University, Mississippi 38677, USA

KEITH MEALS

Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks, 310 Shoemaker Hall, University, Mississippi 38677, USA

Abstract.—We crossed female white crappies Pomoxis annularis with male "black-stripe" black crappies P. nigromaculatus to yield hybrids possessing a distinct coloration that may serve as a natural tag when fish are introduced into existing crappie populations. Eggs of these hybrids were cold shocked to produce triploid hybrid crappies. In three spawns, the black stripe was expressed in 100% of hybrids that were not cold shocked and 85% of hybrids that were cold shocked. Coldshocked hybrids were 95% triploid and 5% diploid. Triploid hybrids bearing the black stripe and diploid white crappies without the black stripe were stocked into experimental ponds for growth and survival comparisons. There were inconsistent differences in growth, body condition, and survival of triploid hybrids and diploid white crappies after 1,151 d in ponds, but the gonads of triploid hybrids were consistently smaller than those of diploid white crappies for each sex. No reproduction was observed in ponds with triploid hybrids, whereas reproduction occurred in ponds with diploid white crappies. Although better growth and survival were not consistently observed among triploid hybrids, the lack of reproduction may be an advantage over diploid white crappies in the management of small impoundments.

Evaluation of F1 Hybrid Crappies as Sport Fish in Small Impoundments
MICHAEL L. HOOE and D. HOMER BUCK

Illinois Natural History Survey, Sam Parr Biological Station, Rural Route 1, Box 174, Kinmundy, Illinois 62854, USA

Abstract.—Growth and reproductive characteristics of reciprocal F1 and F2 hybrid crappies–white crappies Pomoxis annularis × black crappies P. nigromaculatus–were examined to determine if hybrids are better suited for stocking in small impoundments than their parent species. Relative weight gains of the reciprocal age-0 F1 and F2 hybrid crappies were not significantly different (P = 0.55), but the relationship may have been masked by differences in initial sizes of the test fish. Second-year relative growth rates of both reciprocal F1 hybrids were significantly greater than growth of either of the parent species and, with one exception, than growth of the reciprocal F2 hybrids. The reciprocal F1 hybrid crappies were capable of backcrossing with their parent species, and both reciprocal F1 hybrid male crappies had viabilities equal to those of their parent species. Egg viability for the F1 hybrid black crappie female × white crappie male appeared equal to that of the parent species and greater than that of its reciprocal hybrid. Recruitment in ponds was highest for the pure species, intermediate for the F1 hybrids, and lowest for the F2 hybrids. This study confirmed that F1 hybrid crappies may offer a viable alternative to stocking parent species in small impoundments, the F1 hybrid white crappie female × black crappie male being preferable to its reciprocal hybrid. We recommend that hybrid crappies be used only on an experimental basis pending a more thorough evaluation of the incidence and effects of backcrossing with parent species.

Theo,

Too bad we haven’t’ taken the research and development that far………yet.

Imagine a pond stocked with sustainable numbers of “Feed Trained”:
1. Male only BG in the 12 to 14 inch range.
2. Female only YP nearing 16 inches.
3. A few HSB at 3 to 5 lbs.
4. And lastly; Some "triploid" crappie that would eclipse the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket!

I’m just dreaming again.

Ed ... dreams are the first step toward a new reality.

We're in the same boat. Since I have no choice but to stock crappie, we will learn and suffer together.

I have fished many ponds and small lakes. Some had nice crappie, some had stunted crappie. The larger ponds and lakes did better. Also the "weedy" ponds with diverse forage and predators seemed to do better.

The way I see it, a small pond is both a blessing and a curse WRT crappie. While a successful spawn could overwhelm a small pond, it's still a small pond, and can probably be controlled by corrective fishing.

Do keep us posted on your crappie adventure. With enough trial, error, and communication, maybe we can come up with a good forumla to raise these wonderful but troublesome fish.