Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Black Salty

Has anyone tried to establish Black Salties in their pond? If I have to go to Lonoke, AR to pick up Florida and F1 Bass fingerlings, I thought I would stop by Anderson Minnow Farm and pick up some small golden shiners. They have the Black Salty there and thought I would get a few boxes of those to see if they establish.

I would like to know the chance of success before I get them.

Thanks.

Be aware that Black Salties are pretty much just goldfish, albeit dark.

Theo,

Any idea how successful they would be in a 10 acre lake? Also, what kind of reproduction do they have? I'm wanting to establish a nice variety of forage fish and I thought this would be an option.

Will goldfish muddy up the bottom, like their cousin the carp?

Bullhead,

That's a good question. I certainly don't want a lot of fish stirring up the bottom of the pond.

IMHO they would stir up a bottom if present in sufficient numbers. A very small pond near me is infested with Goldfish; which I blame for its poor (perpetually less than 6") visibility.

Previous Black Salty threads:

One and Two

Yup, just dark colored goldfish... That have been genetically bred to be more tolerant to higher salinities, albeit not by much.

I think the Black Salty is a kin to the Golden Shiner also sold by Anderson, which is where I got my fry this spring. I have read testimonials from other pond owners in Michigan that say they are great forage fish for LMB. I.e. some monster LMBs are reported up here.

black salty = carp

carp = goldfish or in the case of the black salty... blackfish

OK I'm listening but it seems to me that we still need to answer a couple of related questions before we can dismiss this question. Given that LMB are veracious predators, a) how big will the Black Salty ("Black fish") get? and: b) will the LMB eat them?

I admit I wouldn't want LARGE gold fish in my pond but just maybe the right size might be a viable addition as a forage supplement. If the LMB won't eat them, I'll bet Walleye would.

I'm not an expert, but did I miss something?

PS - I don't have this salty in my pond and I don't own stock in the company that sells them. Just interested.

It's a good question.

I'd be interested in finding out the following answers.

1. What is the max. size (as you stated).

2. What is the fecundity, or reproductive potential.(super important)

3. Will bass target them over other fish, such as lepomids.

4. If black salty's fit the bill, why would they be any better than just plain goldfish?

Black salties are goldfish. Nothing more, nothing less... The name black salty was given to them to help them sell more to fisherman, plain and simple. If you advertised black goldfish for sale, you ain't gonna sell many fish. You call them black salties and claim they are great baitfish, well you're gonna sell a bunch!

LMB will absolutely eat black salties just like they'll eat any other strain of goldfish. Black salties will reach the same sizes that any "normal" strain of goldfish will. Goldfish reach a maximum size of about 18" and 8 or so pounds. A 14" 3 pound goldfish would be rather large though...

I think if you can get goldfish at a cheaper per pound rate than FHM, they may be a viable alternative to FHM or GSH in an already establish pond that has largemouth large enough to eat them. The issue comes when numerous goldfish outgrow the mouths of the biggest largemouth in your pond. Numerous 12"+ goldfish are as bad as the common carp. They'll roil the water as they root in mud feeding... That is the danger with goldfish. Stocking a few large goldfish that are too big for the bass in your pond to eat and allowing them to spawn, may work well. The few goldfish will not muddy the water that much as there are only a few of them. The young they produce will quickly get gobbled up before they reach a size too large for the bass to eat.

Save your money and skip the black salties. Instead, if you are interested in using goldfish as a forage fish, simply buy ones that are of the reverted semi wild coloration or the typical orange color.

Goldfish have a scientific name of Carassius auratus. Their wild ancestor species of which man first selectively bred them from is the Prussian Carp with a scientific name of Carassius gibelio.

If you want to do a comparison, the goldfish is sorta like the domesticated dog with a scientific name of Canis familiaris or Canis lupus familiaris. With the gray wolf being Canus lupus its "parent" species. The domesticated dog comes in many sizes, forms and colors, much like the goldfish. The wolf and Prussian carp do not, as they were not selectively bred. If you let a bunch of different breeds of dogs have several generations of offspring, the resulting dog almost always is a brown colored semi short coated, partly curled tail dog. Just like if you let all the fancy breeds of goldfish breed for a while without selection, they result in a olive-brown colored fish with no fancy tails or other abnormal body forms, looking somewhat similar to the parental species the Prussian carp... OK, probably more than you wanted to know, but I find it interesting...

From the information I read about black salties, the two biggest factors that were selectively bred into them were the blackish color and a higher tolerance to salinity for those fisherman using them for fishing in the ocean. I believe I read that the typical goldfish is tolerant to salinities of up to 10 ppt while the black salty is tolerant to salinities of up to 14 ppt. Not really a large difference...

Other than that, there shouldn't be any major genetic difference between the average goldfish and the black salty whether its fecundity, maximum size, temperature tolerance or any other attribute.

Goldfish also only have one hard ray on their dorsal fin it is really doesn't even meet the definition of a spine. Compared to lepomids, they certainly have to be an easier meal than a bluegill with all the spines they have. Goldfish are not as fusiform in shape as say an FHM, but they are more fusiform than BG, making them easier for LMB to swallow as well. These attributes would lead me to believe LMB and other predators would prefer eating them over BG. Perhaps a major reason why goldfish are rarely common in BOW that contain large numbers of predators. I often see large orange colored goldfish spawning in the shallows of the Potomac River while fish, however in all the years I have run seines in that river I have caught maybe a couple dozen small goldfish while having caught thousands of other prey species like GSH, banded killies etc...