Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose small mouth bass

Thanks for the info on the goldfish. I am so wanting to throw something else in the pond, It seems I have very little of anything lately since it turned cold again and nothing is active, other than that DANG Heron that keeps hanging around.

Bill Cody and Dave Willis, would you mind commenting about the idea that SMB can be managed in a LMB pond just like HSB? Certainly I do it all the time but I just have one lake. For the people that want SMB and LMB and are willing to spend the money (as they are with HSB) this is a reasonable alternative. This is especially true with a smaller lake where only 20-25 fish a year have to be stocked.

That makes sense to me, Norm.

Norm, I have done as you say, and things are working well. Size of stockers is key.

Norm, we move around quite a few adult smallmouths. When someone catches an 18-20 inch "bonus" smallie, they usually remember that fight!

Norm, Your experiences of using larger sized SMB with LMB are typical of what can be done with those two bass combined together. The negative side of stocking SMB with LMB is you rarely get any reproduction from the smallmouth in the smaller bodies of water. To get any additional smallmouth in the pond you basically have to do as you have done - add them as larger sized yearling, sub-adult, or adult fish. IF you do that, then the two will co-exist in the same pond.

Thank you for your comments Theo, Dave and Bill. What I want to point out here is how we can manage SMB and HSB in exactly the same way. When we stock HSB, we accept the idea that we will have to continually restock with fish large enough to escape predation. We accept that cost as part of having HSB.

For me, the cost of these larger HSB and SMB is about the same, $5 each. I restock 20-25 of each very year. That's 50 fish @ $5 each for a total of $250 every year. I spend much more than that on things for the lake every year.

It makes one wonder how SMB and LMB co-exist and reproduce in the same larger waters. There must be a factor related to water size or depth that allows good reproducing populations of both to work. Now if we can figure that out and at what size or depth we may be on to something helpful.

Good question, Ewest. A partial answer, certainly not complete, is that the largemouths and smallmouths tend to spatially segregate in larger waters. Smallmouths gravitate toward rock when available, and largemouths to aquatic plants (or at least the upper, more productive waters), in a reservoir. Overlap between the species occurs in ponds because of small size. Heck, you probably know the literature better on habitat use by largemouths, smallmouths, and spots in reservoirs than I do!

ewest, I am pretty positive that Dr Dave has a good theory why the LMB and SMB are successful in larger waters. It is not a simple factor. I think it has to do with several factors of size of water body and fish behavior, which includes interspecific competition (crossing different species). The ecological principle of " lebensraum " could play a role in the co-existance of these two fish - adequate room for life or existance.

Larger water body size allows for, or increases the amount of space available for niche separation. When too crowded one of the species dominates, almost always the LMB. Competition between newly hatched YOY fish may be a part of the puzzle but I think it is a minor part. I think the major part is overlap of spawning behavior and availibility of sites.

Could the greater temperature stability in large lakes (vs. rapid and presumable greater temp changes in ponds) be partially responsible for the joint success of LMB & SMB in these waters (vs. virtual certain LMB dominance in ponds)? I can't remember enough about SMB spawning temps to even know if it makes sense to ask the question.

Theo, I doubt that temperature regime has much to do with the SMB-LMB relationship. Typically SMB spawn at just a few degrees cooler than LMB. Some overlap no doubt occurs between late SMB and early LMB spawners.

I have successful recruitment of SMB in an existing LMB population, and I have a good variance in lebensraum (rock, clay, weedy areas, etc.). I also have a lot of fresh, cool water inflow.

Now the real question is how many more seasons can I maintain SMB recruitment?

After getting those larger SMB (in addition to the stocking of smaller SMB), and putting in some larger HSB, I'm really considering just removing most all LMB that we catch, hopefully converting ole' bucketmouth into the occasional bonus fish.

Sunil, I think as LMB numbers increase the competition between the two increases. Working to keep your LMB numbers low will help maintain SMB recruitment.

Thanks guys.

Bill I agree that a major factor is room and habitat. That is how much room is needed to offset the competition. I was being more general in the question. The question in my mind and as reflected in Dave's answer, is how much room (vertical and horizontal) and habitat does it take (where is the point reached). A simple question but not a simple answer ( as in one factor) or reason (complicated set of variables).

I will look back at those SMB spawning studies to see if LMB were present and the size of the lakes. They were not overly large as in thousands of acres but still had good recruitment. I don't recall if LMB were there.

Sunil may be on the right track but he has smart SMB that are big enough to eat small LMB.