Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Many questions...

Upon the property that the bank lets me live upon [NE Indiana], I've a relatively small pond, ~1/3 of an acre, ~14' deep at most, majority in the 8' range. Since moved here a few years ago, this has been my aquatic "Zen garden", my life-sized aquarium. Can't state how many (hundreds?) of hours I've spent in and around this small body of water, pulling weeds, feeding the fish, resculpturing the shoreline by hand & shovel, etc. Being the goofy scientist/engineer, I've tried to keep track of how many fish, what species, what sizes are in there, what I've stocked, what has been removed for dinner . Previous/original owner used chemicals, mainly Copper Sulphate and AquaShade/etc., to keep the pond to their liking - however, since I've owned it, no chemicals have been added. I even let some cattails grow abit more here and there, and by manually pulling up this and that kind of plants, have modified the types and amounts of plant life too [cattails, btw, are supposedly good at removing excess nutrients, etc. - right?].

Anyhow, with that background laid out, this past summer I let the number of catfish exceed the number I desired - was wanting to remove ~6 more, as their numbers had reached ~28 - but, due to travel and lower back bugging my movements, didn't get 'em out. The bass had gone up to ~15, and a fair number of minnows and bluegills made up balance. Some of the cat reached up to ~30", majority though in the 15-22" range, w/ the bass also smaller, ~12-16". Some panfish reached ~8", made for goooood eating. And with the non-use of chemicals and other small management that did to the shoreline areas, the number of frogs increased dramatically - went from maybe 3, to easily over a dozen this past fall. lol, love hearing them beller out their calls...

Well, with the severe cold weather this January-March, in both its duration and the drop in temps., had ice up to 9" thick, w/ coverage lasting for over 2 months. Even though had chopped a few small holes, and had uncovered the snow on a couple occasions [mainly so we could play hockey upon it!], the Oxygen level decreased to levels that killed the majority of the fish. So, with the thaw over the past few weeks of March, I had removed 5 buckets full of once beautiful life... wasted because I was not diligent enough in keeping snow removed from the ice surface [for sunlight to penetrate when possible to help plants emit Oxygen], and enough uncovered water visible to the air for Oxygen to diffuse into the water.

Was a sight, hate to admit, I am sure if anyone drove by and saw ice being chopped and water splattered, just so some dumb fish could live... But, like said, this is my retreat - nothing like eating dinner, partaking a cool drink, relaxing alongside this small body of water, watching the denizens of the deep play and live, listening to the sounds of splashing and of the frogs calling.

It was not until the last weekend of March that I was able to smile about my pond... as indicated above, I was under the belief that all, and I mean all, life had been lost, due to the severity of the ice coverage and the numbers of fish/frogs that were removed. However, with the slowly warming temps, as was doing some yard work, sighted lo and behold 4 bass! And then a small handful of bluegill! And to utmost surprise, just doing it to see what what happen, when tossed a handful of catfish food upon the surface, ~6 cats actually came up after a bit and started 'trolling' for the nuggets! Sounds goofy, but heart and soul were lit up like a kid at Christmas... there was life still in there! Have even spotted a few frogs, and coolest of all, a couple tadpoles...

Anyhow, with that background out of the way - and more chastising upon myself - here are some questions:

1. To replenish, slowly, some of the lost, bought 6 ~6" channel and 6 ~6" LMB along w/ ~500 minnows, ~3 weeks ago. Coincidence or not, over the past three weeks, have removed 3 channel cats, one every week, from the surface. Question: could these be remainders from the winter kill, and just now finding their way to the surface? Or, is there possibility that (a) they died due to the fish that just put in there, or (b) they had something wrong w/ 'em from the low DO levels, and just now buggered off?

2. FA - is it good or not? Sorry, but am confused... the majority of the pond plant life is IL Pondweed, with some others mixed in, with two ~10 foot square areas of cattails. Some FA is good, but too much can be detrimental to the pond and its life?

3. Cattails - is what I stated above right, that they help remove excess chemicals, nutrients, etc. from the pond? But, being quite aggressive in their growth, must monitor them closely.

4. Which brings me to next question [as the poor readers who've suffered through this mess cheer] - chemicals... am I being unrealistic in not wanting to add any chemical control, due to the desire to keep the pond 'natural', and to help prevent any negatives in eating of the fish? That if did add chemicals, in small managed doses in certain areas, slowly at a time, that it would be ok then?

Thanks!

ps: I'll post some photos of the pond shortly...

Howdy, Hobbes.

Last Winter was tough on a lot of midwestern ponds, including one of mine.

I suppose it is possible some cats that died last Winter are still floating up, but it should be very obvious from their appearance. I have seen CC dead for not as long, and they were real gross looking - almost gelatinous. The smell is even worse. So unless your recent CC floaters are really gross, they are probably much more recent morts.

Many of us here wish to lessen the amount of FA in ponds; I think much of that is for aesthetic rather than fish health reasons. FA gets unpleasant to swim or fish in long before there is enough to risk a dying plant induced fishkill.

IIRC growth of any aquatic plant will help remove nutrients from a pond, if the plants are taken out of the pond environment. I also recall hearing cattails mentioned in that regard.

I think it is quite reasonable to want to minimize chemical use, especially if you like to eat a lot of fish. But exactly which chemicals are actually "nasty", and in what concentrations you should really worry about them, I will have to leave that up to chemical experts and informed, experienced users.

Well put. Welcome to Pond Boss Hobbes, you're gonna fit right in here.

I would like to say welcome from another Hoosier. I also lost a goodly number of my fish over the winter even though I ran an aerator 24/7. So I understand the feeling you went through.

Thanks ya'll for the welcomes, its much appreciated.

Ok, have found another, this being the fourth, CC [~16"] floating upon coming home tonight... and now a BG [~5"]. The skin does not look that bad on either one, so most likely not been dead gone too long. What is interesting/strange about these CC's dying, is that its ~1 every week now since this has started. Coincidence or not, going back to that 1st question in my rambling post above, that this started just about the same time that the new purchased fish were placed into the pond? Could there be ANYTHING from the new purchased fish themselves that could be poisoning/killing/etc. the fish. I do feed the CC w/ pellets - new bag that started feeding back in April... Should I have the water, food, what tested? Help!

Oh, the 2nd one that I pulled out had what appeared to be small part of its intestines, maybe 1/2" in a small mass, sticking out of its a-hole. The 3rd one [one before this, last week's] its skin had patchy holes in it - what gave me thought it had been deceased for some time... and yea, they've all stunk rank quite terribly. This latest one, don't see much wrong with it on its outside - would do an autopsy, but lol, what in hades to look for? All CC's have been approximately the same size.

A belated welcome to another Hoosier Hobbs! How far North and East ye be?

Thanks! About half way between Goshen and Ft. Wayne... about 60 miles east of ya :), and 90 miles north of Tom...

This has me wondering - is there any 'meetings' or such where people interested in ponds to our extent gather to compare notes, etc.?

btw, no offense, but NO, I ain't no Hoosier! Originally from the Missouri Ozarks {and StL - where, lol, being called a hoosier [note the lower case 'h'] is a demeaning name }

Funny you should ask, there is! The annual Pond Boss conference is this year at Big Cedar Lodge, Table Rock Lake, Missouri. For DETAILS.

Never been to one, I hope to next year but for those that have been to the two previous, it seems like they are worth the effort to make it to. Also, many groups get together on their own every now and then. I know guys in Texas get together now and then and other areas talk about it...

No offence taken, I grew up on the South Side of Chicago. My parents have had a place on Koontz Lake since the mid 60's and we came out every weekend, no matter what. My sister lives out here, and I prefer the country to the city so here I am as well. You must be a little ways South of Cecil then, somewhere around the Chain-O-Lakes State Park? I usually put in for the Deer Reduction hunt there when they have one.

Ok - come home tonight after weekend away, and am cursed with finding two more CC floating; one ~22", other similar as others have been. What in Hades is doing this???

Fed some bread to BG and LMB while scawling at the dead CC... they all seem so alive and well, just as do the CC when feeding them the pellets.

Questions [yea, I know you all are just so happy to see this ;)]
1. When you have a winter kill, is there any kind of 'brain/nerve damage', maybe that might take longer to affect the survivors?
2. Again, could there be anything at all from the fish that were bought that could cause these CC to die?
3. If have water tested, what would I test it for?
4. Could the CC pellet feed be bad? Its new bag, same brand as fed past two years... thinking of calling the store [Tractor Supply] and the manufacturer, just to see if any recalls, etc.


ps: yeap, not too far from Chain o' Lakes.