Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Help Sand Point Water Well

OK, to all my enjuneer and DIY friends out there, it’s payback time for all the exceptional ideas and conceptual contributions I have made over the years, and design a “sand point” water well system for son Stan.

What is the maximum depth possible with smallest submersible pump 120v for sand point water well?
This well will be located on beachfront property in Mexico that natives reach fresh water (non-potable) with had dug wells within 8-10 ft from surface, before reaching saltwater.

I want to test to see if deeper fresh water exists to feed existing pump, pressure tank, holding tank presently installed in beach house.
All drinking water used is bottled, but past water usage from local shallow wells has caused no problems and leaves no salty taste from shower water or brushing teeth.

Hurricane last fall wiped out temporary power lines and presently running on generator.
Municipal water and power will not be available for several months.

No water well records exist or permits required.

Stan is sending specs for existing system used to provide water pressure to upper level house, so should have them shortly …
Thanks much….

I'm curious, george, how small the smallest available 120 VAC submersible pump is. I have always used the largest available 120 VAC pump (1/2 HP IIRC, which will deliver 11 gpm unchecked from about 90 feet deep).

If no one knows, every time I've bought a pump the boxes had depth/delivery rate info on them. I will check my two spare pump boxes to see if they have any info on smaller sizes (the same packaging was used for multiple models withan "X" marked next to the pertinent info).

I believe 20-25 ft wuld be pushing a test well with hand driven sand point but don't know.
If no fresh water by ~20ft we'll likely back up the hole to 10 ft level, so only a smal pump would be needed but I don't know about that kinda stuff.
Thanks for your help.

In my neighborhood 90 feet is not uncommon in sandy clay soil with a hand driven system. However the bore is around 2" and we use surface pumps.

Our 1/2 HP is the smallest size our manufacturer makes. I did find some 1/3 HP submersibles at Grainger, although their 1/2 HP models can be bought for less (the 1/3 HP does only need 8 Amps at 120 VAC, though).

Extrapolating from the performance curves I have, george, a 1/5 HP pump (if found) should definitely go down to a 20 foot source, and I bet a 1/10 HP pump would as well.

George:
Jwt well pump info

Hydra Drill

The Hydra Drill will allow you to drill down to 200', and drop a submersible well pump.

The sand point is mainly for shallow wells - they are used around here down to 25' or so. None of the local well drillers will put in a well less than 4" for a submersible pump. I picked up a hydradrill HD2000 at a local auction for 1/4 the price, and it included everything needed to drill a 100' deep well, even the rock drill points and material to re-tip the worn points. It was used for 1 well and stored in the pole barn. Too bad you weren't closer!

George,
A thought, what do the locals do? A little checking around might save some headaches down the line.

Some of my worst mistakes have been the "I know how to do that" kind. Even though my locals technology was far different than mine, they knew what was available and how to put it to effective use. I gritted my teeth and knew it wasn't the best way, but it always got done and it always worked.

Esshup, I looked at the Hydra Drill website but didn't see pricing. How much are the DIY ones?

The invoice (orig purchase price) that was given to me put the price @ right around 3K, but that is with EVERYTHING that's required to drill the well, including the 4" well casing and screen. Both motors (slurry pump and drill pump) are Honda's, 100' of drill stem, 5 or 6 different bits, etc.

I had a 4" well dug 2 years ago, depth is 66' (sandy soil)and that well cost the same as what the new Hydadrill would cost.

Thanks for all the help guys...
I asked Stan if he had a salinity test instrument to test the water and he said that he had a very good one.
Pinky, the watchman/caretaker takes the water in his mouth, swishes it around his month like fine wine, and says agua muy bueno – no salado ...

George,
Pinky sounds like the guy who did my well. He said much the same thing when swigging down a 75 cent bottle of whiskey at the end of the job. But, in all fairness when I had the lab check, he was right, no salt.

Hey guys, thanks for all the sand point water well info.
Stan has opted for a 2-inch sand point with thick wall PVC to connect directly to existing pump, pressure tank and holding tank presently installed inside bottom pump room of beach house.

The following link provided the best info for DIY and may be a help to others.
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/dwg/pubs/DrivenPointWells.pdf

I found interesting that this very simple method for water wells in shallow aquifers was used in bivouac camps during WWI.

George:

After just driving in some "T" posts with a fence post pounder, I would hate to use that to drive a well point. Either at my parents house or at a friends, I saw a cylinder shaped piece of steel (8" dia and about 12" long) that had an eye on one end and a 3' to 4' piece of 1" dia solid rod on the other end. Thinking about it now I believe it was used to drive sand points by having the solid rod inside the pipe and using a tripod/rope/pully to lift the weight and drop it. Good luck with the well, if the sweet water table is high, and the ground is sandy, there shouldn't be any problems.

George,

Sandpoint wells were very common where I grew up around Lake Superior.

We did it two ways -- manual, and gasoline assisted. In both cases, we needed a driver, which typically was about a 3-foot piece of 4-inch steel pipe. A plate was welded to cover one end, and hook or loop was welded to that. About 20-40 pounds of plumbers lead was then melted and poured into the driver. Large crossed bolts, at least half-inch, were were put through the pipe and welded in place, just below where the lead ended.

About an 8-foot high tripod, made out of logs, was used to hold a large pulley, generally, at least a 6-inch pulley. The rope was passed through pulley and attached to the driver.

The wellpoint pipe was generally started into a hole dug with a an auger or post hole digger, and plumbed up -- you don't want to drive it at an angle.

The pipe should be in 4-foot lengths, and you need a special driving cap on the end of the pipe -- one that can take the abuse. Slip the driver over the cap, and pull the rope back, and let the driver drop. Repeat, and repeat, and repeat. Stop to check for water every 8 feet or so, dropping a small plumbob or other weight on a string, into the pipe.

Many people had "eccentrics." These were gasoline engines mounted on a sled that could be staked to the ground. The horizontal shaft had an wide offset pulley. You'd put one wrap of rope around the pulley. With the engine running, if you put a little tension on the rope, the rope would wrap around the pulley. If you let the tension off, the rope would slip, and the driver would go down. One man could easily drive a 30-foot well in less than a day. I did it quite a few times.

You can usually pull water at least 25 feet with a simple hand or electric pump. If you drive too far, a farm jack and chain wrapped around the pipe will easily raise the pipe.

Good luck,
Ken

Thanks Ken, when we lived in Tulsa a number of years ago, we lived in area of shallow aquafer and many neighbors had sand point wells in their bckyards.
I've wondered why the subject has not arisen on the forum - or maybe I missed out?

The beach house is ocean front property so should be easy for sand point to penetrate. We know from the locals that fresh water is only 6-8ft from surface, but I want to test deeper to avoid risk of salt water invasion.
Thanks much,
George

George,Ive got one of those drills if you want to borrow it,let me know.Ive also got the drill pipe and bits to go 100 ft.

Thanks Tom, really appreciate the offer.
It might be a bit of a problem getting the equipment into Mexico these days; and getting it back...