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#162891 - 05/10/09 09:08 PM Pond holding water...success notes
jlodestro Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 23
Loc: New York, USA
All,

A year ago+ I posted here because my pond was not holding water. It is now - and I wanted to share what I think worked.

First off - we never started it right - we simply laid the blue clay on top of the original soil & didn't compact - now I know - that was not the right thing to do. Most of you who responded - suggested it could take more than 1 season to 'seal' - and it did.

Here's what we did that I think 'assisted' in it holding water this winter.

1) We drained the pond completely & sprayed it with a product called DB-100 from http://www.ponddoctors.org. Really, slimy, slippery stuff - not very expensive either.

2) Covered it with new clay & compacted where we could - some walls just too steep.

3) Got more runoff 'directed' into the pond' for the winter

It's pretty deep - 18' in spots, and we got it 3/4 full this winter and holding.

Just last week - to solve the problem of a consistent water source - I also installed a solar water pump - with the help of the guys from Oasis Montana. My only water source other than runoff is 2100' away and 130' down the hill. A single 130 Watt solar panel & a Loretnz Boost 'slow pump' - (it's a little bitty thing 10" long by 4" wide)- pumps nearly 2.5 gal/min for 6-7 hours a day...every day...its impressive.

FYI - these 'slow pumps' can't do a lot of volume as you might think of a trash pump, etc. But they are made for this type of app & can push the water in excess of 400' high! That's very hard to do!

Some of you guys may already know all of this - but for me - first time around. Really interesting experience.

Thanks for all your help - I suspect we'll top it off this winter - and/or as we continue to pump thru the summer.

Thanks for your help - this site is invaluable for a novice like myself.

If I can answer any other questions about what we did - please let me know.

Thanks to all,

signed,

Happy in WNY now... aka Jim

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#162895 - 05/10/09 09:20 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: jlodestro]
adirondack pond Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 3135
Loc: big moose ny
jlodestro, glad to hear we have another NY hole in the ground, it's a great place to get rid of your excess money. \:D
Good Luck, let us know what you put in it.
_________________________


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#162997 - 05/11/09 12:11 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: adirondack pond]
jeffhasapond Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
Great news jlodestro! Is stocking next? What are your goals for this pond?
_________________________
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#163012 - 05/11/09 12:40 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: jlodestro]
cheezy1963 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 209
Loc: oklahoma
Do you think the DB-100 played a 'big' role in stopping the seepage?

I've got a similar problem, dam with no core and seepage. Draining and repairing didn't fix it. Bentonite didn't fix it. I thought it was starting to seal off but when the water level went down and came back up...started to leak again this year. Looks like the only way is to completely start over.

I would be really interested to know if the DB-100 worked. If so, I think I might just give it a try. Sounds real interesting.

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#163086 - 05/11/09 06:19 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: jlodestro]
belkins456 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Warren Co, Kentucky
I am very interested in this product DB-100 and I see they also have DB-200. I too have a pond that is in it's second year and due to improper construction STILL isn't holding water to the point i'd like. I have about 4 1/2 feet of water currently and i'm hoping this product may be the cheap answer i've been looking for to get it to full pool. They told me I could simply spray this product on the banks and into the existing water and it would more than likely seal the pond after one to two applications. This product is dirt cheap compared to the ESS-13 or bentonite treatments so as you can imagine i'm skeptical. I have tried too many things to even list to get this pond to seal so i'm up for about anything other than draining it and installing a liner. Do you think this product was what did it for you? And how hard was the application? The way it was explained to me it would be rather difficult to apply it to pond and banks and you would need some type of trash pump. Thanks for any help you can give me!

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#163170 - 05/12/09 05:33 AM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: belkins456]
otto Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 1074
Loc: texas
Tell me more where do you find this stuff.

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#163171 - 05/12/09 05:34 AM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: otto]
otto Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 1074
Loc: texas
By the wat Jim welcome to the forum.

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#163183 - 05/12/09 07:51 AM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: otto]
belkins456 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Warren Co, Kentucky
Mike Otto

Here is the link to the product. It sounds too good to be true but for the price i'm going to give it a try. These people are located in Tennesse which is close to me so he invited me to stop by and take a look at the produt if i wanted to. It's basically just a polymer that supposedly collects suspended particles and organics and pulls them to the pond bottom where it then plugs holes and swells up to 500 times their intial size. He also said I could apply it with a Miracle Grow garden sprayer which seems easy enough. It treats new or existing ponds with water already in them which is the best part for me since mine is half full. I'm going to buy 6 gallons which treats 3/4 acre and try it this week and i'll definately stay in touch if I have any results. He claims his pond was leaking 1 1/2 inches per day and with 3 treatments he now has it only losing water to evaporation, so it sounds impressive. This may be the answer i've been looking for!

http://www.ponddoctors.org/polymer.html <------Link

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#163275 - 05/12/09 01:15 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: belkins456]
jlodestro Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 23
Loc: New York, USA
I'll try to answer all of the questions above in one post.

For Cheezy1963 and Belkins456 - I think the DB100, combined w/ Bentonite and the new clay had a HUGE impact.

By example - When we were applying the DB 100 - we had a brine tank 400 gal on the back of the truck. The idea was we'd suck 400 gal out of the pond add the DB 100 & spray it back on afterward w/ a 2" pump. (This method worked pretty well btw - you can cover a LOT of ground w/ a 2" pump) My buddy did NOT put the plug in very well - so as we were sucking in the 400 gal the water was literally leaking out of this plug at the bottom of the tank. Probably at a rate of to 1+/gal/min - it was a pretty big leak - back of the truck was soaked. We added the DB100 when the tank was app 1/2 full. I recall you need to mix the stuff a MINIMUM of 500:1 - so in that 400 gal tank we were using less than 1 gal. Well once I added the DB100 - it stopped the leak on this tank in app 30 sec. Amazing. The entire tank takes on the consistency of Jello - very slippery / slimy stuff. When it hits the clay - some of it soaks in - and the surface becomes really slick.

When using this stuff - compact BEFORE you spray, unless you cover it w/ new material. I don't know how you could compact w/ the slippery surface - unless the pond is completely empty.

If you use this stuff - it can be tough on some of the fish - so - be aware of that.

Also - they suggest you disperse Bentonite into the water (granular form) & it will combine w/ the DB100 - and theoretically sink to the hole. Now I drained my pond - and sprayed the whole darn thing - so I can't speak to this usage.

They also suggest it will take multiple coatings - I did 2...

For Otto - the link above is correct.

For Jeffhasapond - fish next. I have a proper hatchery close by & am going to work w/ him on a recommendation for the pond. I suspect based on the 1st conversation it will be some combination of LMB, Crappie, Bluegill, Perch & some type of channel cat / bullhead - fatheads of course as well.

I think that is it. Happy to answer any other questions.

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#163301 - 05/12/09 02:36 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: jlodestro]
belkins456 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Warren Co, Kentucky
Jlodestro,

Thanks for your response! I dont plan on rigging up any type of pump application due to cost of buying a trash pump. He told me if i were patient and could get a garden hose down to it I could simply spray it on one quart at a time through a miracle grow garden sprayer or any other type of yard sprayer. Since that costs nothing other than cost of my water bill i'll probably just go that route. Do you know anyone else who has ever used just this product alone and stopped a leak? I'm thinking since you went back and added clay and compacted your soil that alone probably fixed your leak and you may be giving undue credit to the DB-100. What i'm looking for is something that up until now I didn't think existed. I want a product thats easy to apply, can be used on existing pond and applied to banks above water level to virtually stop seepage and seal pond off. Thanks again for your input!

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#163314 - 05/12/09 03:50 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: belkins456]
jlodestro Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/10/08
Posts: 23
Loc: New York, USA
Belkins456 - It's hard to say all what might have worked. I don't know if it was a combination - but I know this was the 3rd winter before this thing held any water.

I think for what you are trying to do - as I understand the DB100 - that's what it is supposed to do. You should be able to just spray it on - period.

I hope you give it a whirl - it can'r hurt! Let us know.

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#163321 - 05/12/09 04:15 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: belkins456]
cheezy1963 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 209
Loc: oklahoma
thanks for the response jlodestro. I'm going to do a little more investigating before jumping on this. I've already wasted too much money and want to make sure this product will work. I'm hoping it does much more than just target the pond bottom (or outer layer). I hope there is some penetration with it....otherwise the seal won't last.

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#163653 - 05/14/09 12:49 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: cheezy1963]
belkins456 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Warren Co, Kentucky
Well I ordered 6 gallons of DB-100 today and will apply it with nothing more than garden hose and miracle grow sprayer. It should be in early next week so after I apply it I will closely monitor water loss and see if this is a miracle cure or just more money dumped into the bottomless pit! Wish me luck!

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#163683 - 05/14/09 04:35 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: belkins456]
cheezy1963 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 209
Loc: oklahoma
I would be very interested with your results belkins456. I'm torn right now between 3 different products. AquaBlock pondseal, Water$ave PL (another polymer) and the DB-100. All seem like they would work. A positive result may help with my decision.

Too bad you can't have them ship you the product and then pay them after you verify that it works. Now that would be a deal \:\)

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#163761 - 05/15/09 08:59 AM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: belkins456]
wivell Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 94
Loc: Uniontown, PA
Good Luck
_________________________


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#163879 - 05/15/09 07:19 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: belkins456]
adirondack pond Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 3135
Loc: big moose ny
belkins, hope it works for you, sounds promising.
How much did 6 gallons cost?
_________________________


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#163959 - 05/16/09 09:07 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: cheezy1963]
belkins456 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Warren Co, Kentucky
Cheezy1963 -

Lucky for me I've never heard of those other two so the choice was easy...ha-ha When I googled them I didn't get much and I couldn't get that web link to work. I'm putting my faith in the DB-100 and I will definately post results!

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#163960 - 05/16/09 09:08 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: adirondack pond]
belkins456 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Warren Co, Kentucky
212 dollars plus shipping.

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#163962 - 05/16/09 09:20 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: belkins456]
adirondack pond Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 3135
Loc: big moose ny
That is a real bargain if the product seals the pond, hope it works, keep us posted.
_________________________


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#164004 - 05/17/09 07:25 AM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: adirondack pond]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14030
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Yes, please keep us posted. I also have one that wasn't properly cored. This just sounds too simple. My normal fix to anything is to dump tons of money or ignore it.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#164043 - 05/17/09 12:24 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: Dave Davidson1]
cheezy1963 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 209
Loc: oklahoma
belkins456,

Did you happen to get/see a MSDS sheet?

I think I found the Water$ave PL in Australia and haven't got a response back from them yet. Doesn't look promising if they won't respond. I misspelled 'AquaBlok'. They are here in the states and seem to have a pretty solid product. I'm a little skeptical about it because it is based on bentonite and I've already tried that.

I've been looking for a solution for my leak since I became a forum member. The DB-100 almost seems to good to be true.

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#164108 - 05/17/09 11:47 PM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: cheezy1963]
belkins456 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Warren Co, Kentucky
I didn't see a MSDS sheet for this product but they claim it is 100 percent fish safe if thats your concern.

I looked at that AquaBlok product and i'm almost certain it will be expensive. Have you checked prices on it yet? I'm not a big fan of any bentonite product as I have heard so many mixed results on it. Trust me I feel the same way you do. I too have been looking for a leak solution for over a year now and it's really the main reason I joined the Pond Boss Forum. It does seem too good to be true but I have been feeling lucky lately so we'll see?? I went down to pond and weed eated the banks down to bare soil this afternoon to prepare it for treatment next week. The fact such a thick stand of grass was growing on banks tells me there probably isn't alot of Clay there since grass doesn't tend to grow in it but i'm still crossing fingers... Stay tuned!

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#164118 - 05/18/09 12:29 AM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: belkins456]
cheezy1963 Offline
Lunker

Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 209
Loc: oklahoma
thanks belkins456.

I wasn't really too worried about my fish. I was more concerned if there where any long term affects that may occur. If it fixes my leak I wouldn't care if all the fish float : ) Keeping the water is much more important.

I spoke to a AquaBlok sales guy (real nice guy) but didn't get a price quote so you may be correct on the high price. He did tell me that the price was comparable to bentonite. Good luck and I look forward to your results......if I can wait that long before buying some myself.

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#164127 - 05/18/09 07:22 AM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: cheezy1963]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14030
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I've been thinking about this and would really like to find a miracle fix to my non cored pond. I have had some crud, mostly sand from the sandy loam, wash into the bottom of my pond. I'm sure the leak is caused by not coring. It would be nice to find something that works instead of starting over.

I'm skeptical about anything that might suck sand into a hole and bind everything together to fix a leak.

In my area, rain can be a pretty chancy thing and losing what water we do get ain't all that great. Please let us know how it works.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#164139 - 05/18/09 09:40 AM Re: Pond holding water...success notes [Re: Dave Davidson1]
adirondack pond Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 3135
Loc: big moose ny
I'm looking forward to the results also, up here water is plentyful, but the gravity feed lines freeze up and it's hard to pump below zero.
The pond dropped more than 3ft. this winter and with a max. depth of only 8ft. I know this helped lead to the trout winterkill.
If the DB-100 will stop the seepage in my dam it could be the difference for trout survival, we await your results.
_________________________


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