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#162933 05/10/09 11:30 PM
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Hello all;

I had a well dug 1.5 years ago before I purchased my land in order to determine whether or not the water table had the necessary GPM to fill and keep my ponds topped off. It turns out we had water - so I purchased the land.

I had enough to pump up to 90 GPM [with a 10 HP pump!] but there existed some risks pumping that high rate from my well over time - so I settled for a smaller pump [5 HP] to handle around 50 GPM.

Bob Lusk pointed out something I never considered in a post today - it's wise to have the chemistry of your well water tested and analyzed prior to commiting to a pond project. Makes sense - I just went with my well driller's assessment that everything in my report "looked fine" [what else would he say?]. Should have brought my test results to the forum before I went and created four ponds, however, I suppose it's still worthwhile to get some feedback from anyone who would be willing to lend their expertise and help me out!

Here are the results:

Nitrate+Nitrate Nitrogren - Not Detected
Flouride - .49 mg/l
ph at 22.0 Celsius - 7.8
Turbidity - 1.0 NTU
Total Dissolved Solids - 483 mg/l
Hardness [CaCO3] - 340 mg/l
Hardness [CaCO3] - 20 grains/gal
Electrical Conductivity - 0.754 mmho/cm
Sulfate [SO4] - 30 mg/l
Total Calcium - 88 mg/l
Total Iron - not detected
Total Magnesium - 0.67 mg/l
Total Sodium - 36 mg/l

Any feedback? I hope these results are within acceptable parameters?

Kinda have a sinking feeling like I'm waiting for a professor to post my grade...I hope I don't have reason to.

Thanks in advance guys...


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Nitrate, pH, and turbidity are good. Public drinking water ranges from .1-.3 NTU's.

Conductivity is really low. Water I sample all year ranges from 30 uS/cm in a tributary of the Arkansas River to 500+ in the Arkansas River itself.

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What are the implications of having low conductivity? (just trying to learn here).


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I am not sure how it effects the fish other than making it hard to do an electrofishing survey.

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Here's the feedback Bob provided another forum member regarding their potential well project:

One word of caution, though. Learn about the aquifer where the water comes from.
I have seen well water do funny things to ponds...like be the main cause for muddy water due to an ionic imbalance of dissolved minerals. I've even seen water lacking in certain minerals as to need to be amended with gypsum or buffered with lime. If you can get a water analysis of that aquifer it would be helpful, especially if you do it before you drill the well. I've seen several cases where the landowner would have made a different decision regarding a well...if they had only known the issues in advance.


I think my ph and salinity are within acceptable parameters...again anyone's feedback is appreciated. Doesn't pay to be a worrywart, I'm stuck with what I have, but I can't help it apparently to see if I should be planning on some additional measures to get the ponds in balance.


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No alkalinity reading? ???


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Um...no. Cecil, do you have a good chemical compound checklist [Bob Lusk mentioned one exists] for well water testing as it relates to fisheries management?


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Cecil

I thought ph measured alkalinity? 7.0 being neutral, 7.8 a little on the alkaline side?


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Alkalinity tells you how buffered the water is. The higher the alkalinity the less likely the pH will change. If the alkalinity is less than 20 you can have a daily swing in pH.

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Thanks for the clarification Chris.

I think the well water tests were meant mainly for human consumption...might be why some of the critical elements are apparently missing from my test results as they relate to pond/fisheries management.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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You can buy alkalinity tests at your pet store and are easy to do.

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I sent a well water sample to these guys. Lots of parameters and interpretation.

http://www.ftai.com/water.htm

Note: I wouldn't trust any iron level readings anyone does unless they were done on site.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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 Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
I sent a well water sample to these guys. Lots of parameters and interpretation.

http://www.ftai.com/water.htm

Note: I wouldn't trust any iron level readings anyone does unless they were done on site.


Thanks guys, really appreciate your feedback.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Here's another well for comparison.
_________________________________________________________________

Sample I.D.: Well Water

Test Requested Units Date Analyzed Results
Chlorides mg/L 4/23/2009 240.0
Hard,Mg. mg/L 4/27/2009 23.7
Hard,Ca. mg/L 4/27/2009 <.001
Total Hardness mg/L 4/27/2009 23.7
Iron mg/L 4/27/2009 0.02
pH 4/27/2009 7.25
Sodium mg/L 4/23/2009 400.0
Sulfates mg/L 4/27/2009 1150.0
Alkalinity mg/L 4/27/2009 340.0
Fecal Pass/Fail 0424/2009 Pass



Even though the sample shows no sign of fecal matter and passes the other parameters with
satisfaction, this sample shows extremely high sulfate content.
________________________________________________________________

Tee, curious how deep and size casing used on your well?

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270' 6" casing - 5 HP variable speed pump. Pics are coming when this thing is finally finished. Have very "friendly" and affordable well driller, but he's exceedingly slow and unreliable...this project's original completion date was Autumn 08. Seriously. Oh well, I've learned that in NE at least where fishery biologists and pond construction companies are few and far between, one needs to exercise EXTREME patience and suspend normal business expectations.

This is one, and maybe the ONLY time, I wish I were in Texas ;\)


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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You know, my Texas pond brethren, I jest!


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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With the hardness and Ca reading you have your total alkalinity will be good. For general comparison purposes.






















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 Originally Posted By: ewest
With the hardness and Ca reading you have your total alkalinity will be good. For general comparison purposes.







Eric

Are you referring to my test results, or Ahavsta's?


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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 Originally Posted By: ewest
With the hardness and Ca reading you have your total alkalinity will be good. For general comparison purposes.







Eric

If my alkalinity is in line can we somewhat rule out ionic imbalance as a cause for clarity issues?


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Not necessarily but it sure improves the chances.


http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=25 then see SRAC 0460 Control of Clay Turbidity in Ponds


Hardness

Water hardness is important to

fish culture and is a commonly reported

aspect of water quality. It

is a measure of the quantity of divalent

ions (for this discussion,

salts with two positive charges)

such as calcium, magnesium

and/or iron in water. Hardness

can be a mixture of divalent salts;

however, calcium and magnesium

are the most common sources of

water hardness.



Then note from the link above :



Flocculation and

coagulation

Flocculation is a way of controlling

clay turbidity by adding substances

to water that facilitate the

formation of bridges between particles

(Fig. 2), allowing them to

combine into groups of small particles

called “flocs” (Fig. 3). Metal

salts make good flocculants,

depending on pH. These

hydrolyzed metal compounds

destabilize colloids by shrinking

the layer of positively charged

ions surrounding clay particles,

which increases the attraction of

one particle to another (coagulation).

Hydrolyzed metals also can

be adsorbed onto the surfaces of

clay particles and create bridges to

other particles (flocculation). As

these particles begin to settle, they

ensnare other particles, become

progressively heavier, and settle

much more readily from suspension.

In general, the effectiveness of

coagulants increases with the

charge on the metal ion. The sodium

(Na+) in sodium chloride

(NaCl) is not a very effective coagulant.

The calcium (Ca2+) in gypsum

(CaSO4) is more effective

because it carries a +2 charge.

The aluminum (Al3+) in alum and

the ferric-iron (Fe3+) in ferric sulfate

are more effective yet because

they carry a +3 charge.
Some

companies now manufacture various

synthetic “polyelectrolytes,”

which are large, long-chained

molecules with even more charge

than the metal salt coagulants listed

here.
















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 Originally Posted By: ewest
Not necessarily but it sure improves the chances.


http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=25 then see SRAC 0460 Control of Clay Turbidity in Ponds


Hardness

Water hardness is important to

fish culture and is a commonly reported

aspect of water quality. It

is a measure of the quantity of divalent

ions (for this discussion,

salts with two positive charges)

such as calcium, magnesium

and/or iron in water. Hardness

can be a mixture of divalent salts;

however, calcium and magnesium

are the most common sources of

water hardness.



Then note from the link above :



Flocculation and

coagulation

Flocculation is a way of controlling

clay turbidity by adding substances

to water that facilitate the

formation of bridges between particles

(Fig. 2), allowing them to

combine into groups of small particles

called “flocs” (Fig. 3). Metal

salts make good flocculants,

depending on pH. These

hydrolyzed metal compounds

destabilize colloids by shrinking

the layer of positively charged

ions surrounding clay particles,

which increases the attraction of

one particle to another (coagulation).

Hydrolyzed metals also can

be adsorbed onto the surfaces of

clay particles and create bridges to

other particles (flocculation). As

these particles begin to settle, they

ensnare other particles, become

progressively heavier, and settle

much more readily from suspension.

In general, the effectiveness of

coagulants increases with the

charge on the metal ion. The sodium

(Na+) in sodium chloride

(NaCl) is not a very effective coagulant.

The calcium (Ca2+) in gypsum

(CaSO4) is more effective

because it carries a +2 charge.

The aluminum (Al3+) in alum and

the ferric-iron (Fe3+) in ferric sulfate

are more effective yet because

they carry a +3 charge.
Some

companies now manufacture various

synthetic “polyelectrolytes,”

which are large, long-chained

molecules with even more charge

than the metal salt coagulants listed

here.


I actually understood that...scary! Thanks Eric...this is really helpful.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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TJ, since you have hardly any magnesium in the test, the alkalinity should approach the hardness, which is the calcium carbonate component. al's extreme diff. in alk and hardness looks to be due to the abnormally high sulphates.
IMO, the conductivity is not correct considering the high level listed of TDS. I think it should read .754 milli mhos or 754 micro mhos.
I wish for a smidgin of your hardness/alkalinity. The only thing I would suggest is take it easy on the fertilizer, it may not take much since the hardness will make all of it soluble.

Last edited by burgermeister; 05/13/09 09:13 AM.

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Don't worry TJ, a lot of men cry themselves to sleep at night wishing they were Texans.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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And even more wishing they weren't.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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Uh oh.


JHAP
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