Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Georgia Giant Help

What has been your experience with them, Bill? Bluegill are my main interest, so I'm very interested to hear how the GG turned out for you. My two biggest questions would be, how was the survival rate from the initial stocking, and what's the biggest one you've caught?

One more question would be, what is/was the average size when they reached their peak in your pond?

Walt My pond was two hours from the hatchery so all my GG got there in good shape. Sold my farm three years later (thank you Southern Company) Georgia Giants, one to one and a half pounds with the largest weighted under two pounds. No five pound fish as Ken says. But if I build another pond GG are going in!


CECIL DELETED HIS NEXT POST WHICH WOULD EXPLAIN MY NEXT ANSWER

Cecil, Hybrid Bream are not the same cross as Georgia Giants, Bob Lusk agrees with that. I would not put the common hybrid bream cross in my pond.

I would put HBG in a put and take pond under the right circumstances.

I would not put GG in any pond - my opinion.

ewest, other than the Ken issues, why stock HBG and not Georgia Giants

I'm not so sure Bill although Bob would know better than I would. I was told by a biologist at another southern hatchery that when said party runs out of GG's he buys hybrids from them and sells them as GG's. So either they are the same or said party only cares about a sale.

Good try Cecil you made the same statement on this site three years ago and I called you on it as hearsay and you backed off, do you want to see the thread.

Bill,

I honestly don't recall you calling me on it but this was not hearsay. I was told personally in an email. However I refuse to post the name and location of the hatchery here for obvious reasons. I could P.M. you the information if you promise not to post it here? But how do I know considering your are protective of the GG's you will not cause trouble for myself and the hatchery?

I can assure you I don't make things up. Have you ever seen me make things up here?

Cecil you might want to check with ewest on what hearsay means

Bill,

I deleted my post to not stir up a hornets nest. Looks like I did with my next post though.

How do you know they are not the same thing? I thought it was a secret? Do you have access to proprietary information?

And I stand behind my statement. I am not a liar.

I know what hearsay means Bill. I took a law class in college when I studied business.

I received a personal email from the biologist that was kind enough to answer questions for me from time to time. A personal email to me stating what I said in my email is not hearsay.

Ewest, You were right! Warned us way back close to the beginning of this thread.

Be cool guys.

MY thoughts. Disclaimer: I have no personal experience with GG. I also would never disbelieve Bill Duggans word or experience.

I consider Holyoke as a master salesman who has given some questionable advice on stocking numbers. Actually, IMO, they have been more than questionable. When we toss in the Hogzilla story, we both question and understand a little more about the "Biologist/Salesman".

I consider it absolutely possible that he he experimented with different Lepomis crosses and found a good combination. However, there have been too many people who have not gotten the results that he advertised. Maybe he got sloppy or just rushed to the market with less than the original combination. Lots of mixed results tell me to let the buyer beware.

For the most part an F1 Lepomis will not have the spawning numbers of the parents. If we keep going, we find even more limited reproduction and they don't always breed true. It becomes a hit and miss deal. But, that has not kept him from selling them or whatever he claimed were the secret recipe.

Like Bill says, we may need to separate the man from the fish. I'm not sure how many people got the "real" GG's and how many got common HBG's or some other combination.

As I said I only post with personal knowledge, my pond was finished late July, when I called Ken to order my GG he told me he was sold out for the season. He gave me two options, wait till the next spring or he would deliver bluegills (yes he sells other bream) the next week. I waited till the next spring.
Cecil I am sure you have an e-mail from Kens competitor in Alabama, I do not need to see it.

Bill, I certainly respect your experience, but if I recall correctly, you didn't buy in to the total Holyoke plan including free water testing, chemicals to treat your 'bad' water, dye, huge stocking numbers, smallmouth bass stocking (really just HSB), feeders & feed, etc. etc.?

If I had to guess, you were already educated as to what you wanted before you went to Holyoke?

Bill,

Wrong state and the hatchery and is not a competitor of Ken's. In fact they are so large I think retail is a very small part of their business.

I'm going to let this go. I will respect your opinion and leave it at that. This is a great site and there is no need in kicking up animosity.

Sunil you are correct I did not follow Kens stocking advice. I agree Ken will load a pond with GG which is far greater than any stocking recommendations we see here. I will say that when I ordered 2000 for a 3.5 acre pond he did not try to push more on me. Ken is one of the most interesting people I have ever spent time with (been to his hatchery three times) but I will be the first to say he is often not customer friendly.
One thing I did is to stock coppernose bream after the GG for more forage for the bass. GG and coppernose turned out to be a great combo. I saw little or no reproduction from the GG.
As I said if you want to talk about Ken fine I can give you the good the bad and the ugly. If we want to educate our selfs on this stocking option leave Ken out of it.

I can understand your point, Bill, but how do you seperate the GGs from Ken?

Other educated forum members tried to buy some GG and got completely hosed by Ken & company. These customers didn't buy into the whole 'package' although one did go for the water test. So even as what we would call educated or experienced pond meisters, these customers got burned.

I guess what I'm asking is that if a situation presents itself where GG can work, what do you advise to the customer as to how to deal with Holyoke? For instance, if you don't subscribe to his water test and subsequent chemical treatment, then it's your fault if the fish die?

Bill , like DD1 said , I trust your opinion and Cecil's as well. Readers they are both true stand up guys and PB friends with valuable info to add here. If Bill says he had good results with GG you can trust that he did. If Cecil says he has negative info on GG then he does. We all have opinions that differ on some things. Heck on a couple of matters even Bob and I don't agree. Folks that is ok.

I thought I would answer Bill's question - " ewest, other than the Ken issues, why stock HBG and not Georgia Giants? "

It has little to do with the source and everything to do with the science. I am picky about my fish. There are many peer reviewed scientific studies/results on HBG (BG X GSF) and no outside science on GG. I know what I am getting on HBG and what results I can expect. I have no idea what I am getting with GG other than one personal horror story from a friend (I saw the fish so it is personal not hearsay). In addition I have the opinions posted on this forum like yours and others which I trust (pro and con). If I am creating a put and take fishery then I need to reduce the risk of failure thus I go with the known rather than the unknown. In addition I have one overriding rule wrt all hatcheries - I don't buy fish from people I don't trust - no matter what I hear about the fish.

hang loose I am glad some folks note the important stuff - thanks for the help in keeping things friendly.

Guys we should drop this and let each of our opinions and positions stand as stated. My friends here like Bill and Cecil ( and many others) are more important than any GG or HBG.

Sunil i can only discuss the good experiances I had dealing with Ken. if the guy hoses everyone but me how does he stay in business?
Cecil when we discussed the e-mail before i thought you said the business was from Alabama, sorry.
Ken is an issue that we will have to agree to disagree

No two ponds are alike.
No two ponds' surroundings and (micro)climates are alike.
No two sets of starting conditions are alike.
No two fish delivery routes are alike.

These are just some of the reasons why "Your Mileage May Vary", and accuracy is at increased hazard when we say "always" or "never".

Good questions, Bill. I don't have the answers.

Perhaps your order for GG was big enough that Ken didn't push you the way he does with some others.

Ken still has a business because he is a master at marketing. Also another factor would be that what he is claiming and saying is exactly what people want to hear and his information is what they are virtually starved for. When you hear about all the promises and the plan to follow, etc you are blinded to all the bad and can only see the good that you are looking for. He is essentially a politician.....

I was looking for information about ponds and fish and I found Kens info before anyone elses. I have stocked his hybrid crappie and well over 10,000 GG's and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I was even told over the phone that the fish would start moving after a few days, if they are laying on the bottom they are still alive, just acclimating, if they are floating then they are dead- And I believed it! They were the experts and I didnt know nothin.

Alot has changed since then, a definite learning experience.
I get asked questions about Georgia Giants all the time, people just want them so bad, and many people just need to learn things for themselves firsthand I guess.

Ken definitely had to have a product to get started, but quality control, integrity, and customer service just are not acceptable.

Bill glad to see your on here and sorry to be quick. You now my stance we have discussed it. When Deb was on here I agreed to try them out again. I sold them and supposed too get 10% finder fee. The fish did horrible and smaller than they were supposed to be. Nate is 100% correct he has business b/c people believe him. I was going to use my finder fee money b/c in a crunch and decided to get catfish from them. They said Deb was not supposed to authorize that so I lost my "money" $700 worth.

This does not disturb me as much as a client spending 1,000 on his water quality products to still have an unproductive environment. He continues to give fish folks a bad name. i do not talk bad about folks but except this guy. I hope his health improves and thank him for opening minds to somethingn other than state same old plan for everyone but do not run my business the way he does. He has indeed screwed many people personally know about 40 clients. He is good at reading people probably knew you were educated and woudl not pay in to his BS so he did not try to oversell you. I have seen 15,000 GGsold to ).5 acre pond before. He continues to move to new ground to repeat the story that is how he is still in business Bill.

Greg I know your history with Ken. But I have to keep asking the same question. Twenty years in business in the same location, sells millons of fish, most are delivered dead (according to posters) only a hand full of happy customers and still his business grows. There are not that many pond owners. Greg becides me do you know one customer of Kens who are happy with their transaction. Gave your name to my buddy Tom outside of Helen for his subdivision pond did you shock it?