Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Tilapia for forage fish

I have a lake that is approx. 20' deep @ the deep end and 5-7' deep @ the shallow end and 45-50 acres; when full. The lake is located on the OK-TX border on the Red river a little N. of Wichita Falls, TX. I have had it stocked with CNBG, RE, FH, TF shad and F1 bass for 3 years come june '07. I have caught 1- 6 lb. & a number of 5.5 lb & 4's. Thread fins were stocked 40M then 60M the 1st two years. They have gotten too expensive last time I checked. I was wondering about Tilapia. I don't want them to get away from me and uncontrollable. I was told by someone that raised stripers for sale in Ark. that they would over winter and take over. The same problem with gizzard shad getting too big for some fish and then overpopulating.

Anybody know if these make a good forage source or should I just leave well enough alone.

Anybody out there know if Tilapia will overwinter and not die off with cold water temp. I did a shock on my lake this past spring and had some thread fin shad that overwintered.

Thanks HFW

They don't have a prayer anywhere close to Wichita Falls. They would have all died last week.

Jay welcome to the PondBoss forum. I agree with Dave that your location will get to cold for tilapia to overwinter. TShad can survive about 10 degrees colder water than tilapia ( 42 vs. 50/52). GShad can be a real problem and are only appropriate in limited circumstances (which you do not have) in a small water body.

I suggest that before you keep spending that much money on either TShad or tilapia (they are not cheap either) that you think about the following.

1 Goals for the lake.
2 Conditions at the lake (droughts , feeding etc).
3 How many people fish the lake and what gets taken out.

Then call Bob Lusk and get an assessment done on the lake. First gather your info from stocking , time periods , the matters above and any prior shock survey and catch data. and send him a copy.

Then you can make the best choice of what to do and what , if anything , to stock. Those are good growth rates for 2 1/2 year old LMB ( 6 , 5.5 and 4 lbs).

I am wondering about a stocking plan that requires stocking 40-60M TShad a year as an ongoing method. A similar plan with tilapia for a 50 acre lake would also be hard to keep going.

Okay - what could Jay do with his 50 acres of water to have significant numbers (i.e. enough that he wouldn't need to restock every Spring) of TFS remaining in the Spring (barring Winters that are cold enough for them to die off)?

Sherman Wyman is only a little bit South and he seems to do OK with threadfin.

However, I gotta admit that I'm mostly a Bluegill fan in our area. Lots of guys say that the addition of tilapia takes the pressure off the CNBG and allows them to really thrive. I worry about tilapia and their spawning rates in drought stricken areas. He does mention 45 to 50 acres WHEN FULL. However, in a larger body of water, stocked at 5 lbs per acre instead of 10 lbs, they might be the answer he is looking for.

I agree that lakes take more professional mgt. than ponds and Lusk is the answer. Actually, a professional analysis might suggest that no additional forage is needed.

I have to agree with the responses above. Threadfin shad and bluegill SHOULD be all you need as a forage source for bass in 50 acres of water. Assuming your threadfins don't die in the winter...which they probably won't, just keep the lake fertile and follow the harvest recommendations set forth by your biologist.

Tilapia are probably too costly for 50 acres of water. Some folks with large lakes will grow tilapia in a "satellite" pond and transfer them to feed their bass.

It's now too cold to get a good survey as fish will be deep and difficult to catch. Your next opportunity for a survey is early spring, like late march/early april. We'd be glad to help you if you can't line something up closer to your area. We already have one spring survey scheduled in Throckmorton in the early spring.

Theo I am not sure he needs to do anything with those growth rates if they are representative of the LMB population. The question is was there a recommendation that TShad be stocked every year and if so why. In that size lake they fill a niche not used by the BG. They do require a plankton bloom. Assuming no unusual stocking plan, unless the lake shrunk a bunch and concentrated the shad for a LMB massacre or some other situation occurred they should be self sustaining.

Eric, there is a good chance that his lake has shrunk significantly. I am down probably 50% and only about 40 miles South of him. In his situation, without a history of analysis and no more information than we have, I think there is a good chance that his forage has been concentrated. Other than threadfins, he hasn't indicated his overall stocking numbers nor whether the LMB were delayed or their sizes.

Looking at his website I see that he is a Rancher. Most good ones understand the relationships involved in forage/prey and consumer/predator. I applaud his questions.

HFW, can you furnish more info regarding stocking and timing? Throw in the stuff Theo asked about.

Thanks for all of your comments. Now to answer some of the stuff I didn't include in my first question. I originally stocked 32M 2-3" CNBG, 8M RE, 400 lbs FH in April of 2004. First of June I put in 40M 4" TShad. Then 2 weeks latter I stocked 4M F1 LMB. I know I should have waited but I wanted to get a jump on the bass growth. That is why I added an additional 60M Tshad the following year along with feeding the CNBG. I thought the additional shad would take some pressure off the BG's and give them a chance to get big. It seems to have worked as I was fishing with a culprit worm and caught a .5 lb BG. Don't know how he got that bass hook in his mouth.

The lake was about 1/3 full when I stocked. We then caught a 11" rain in Aug. or Sept. of the following year and filled it to within 2' of being at pool. During the drought this past summer I was down to about 8' from pool stage. We got a 4" rain this past Oct. and brought it up to 4' from pool. I have about 1,200 acre water shed so that helps. I would like to see about a 6" rain or several hard and fast ones to get a good runoff.

As far as the fertility of the lake, I used Trophy Maker fertilizer at the beginning of Spring and kept the Sicci disk from 18-24" visibility.

As for the harvesting. I have just this fall started harvesting 12" and down, 200-250 of them. As for the size of the fish. I have only caught one 6 #'r. The number of 4's & 3.5's are greater. I did have a shock done this past sping and had the harvest recommendation. I plan on doing another shock this sping and most probably do more extensive harvesting but that will be determined by the survey.

Hope this has filled in some holes in my data.

Again, Thanks for all ya'lls responses and the speed of the responses amazed me.

PS: I got the answer I was leaning toward. Leave well enough along; forget the Tilapia and stick with the CNBG & Tshad if need.

Jay if you have an ongoing TShad population, the the BG are growing good and you are getting good LMB growth rates then keep doing what you have been and cull those LMB as needed. Do you seem to have a bunch of TShad now?

I think i have Tshad. How many, i'm not sure. I have noticed sea gulls coming in this last week. I've been keeping the comorants out but i don't think they'll give u a permit for shooting sea gulls. I did notice little bass chasing shad out in the middle of the lake (deep water) back in August/September.

Thanks for the input. Jay