Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Mail order trees

Bruce,
There are a couple of trees that I am interested in. One is the Royal Empress, it grows up to 10 feet the first year and be 25 feet tall in a couple of years, supposedly. It is a shade type tree with purplish blooms. The other is an evergree called the Thuja Green Giant. It supposedly grows at a rate of 3 to 5 feet per year.

OK. I've got the Austrees and have had mixed results. I'm unfamiliar with the RE or the Thuja. I'm interested in learning though.

Thuja Green Giant thread
(I think Thuja got demoted a little from inflated advertising promotions)

Lance...
I trust you have some experience with Western Red Cedar? What is the growth rate?

OK ALL YOU TREE NUTS, let's get the poop (I mean woo-woo) on the Royal Empress. Also, Bruce needs to kick in a little bit more on the Austrees (speak softly so the BG don't get jealous)

Does that make Bruce an Austree-an? If so, he would be eligible to join the Von Gallus Family Singers for the road production of "The Sound of Music."

No experience with the western red cedar. Just countless hours I do of research of my passion, trees.
I did plant a western red cedar last year, but its obviously too soon to decide anything from that. In some references its stated that the western red cedar can grow in the east, but an interior seed source needs to be used because it'll be more drought-tolerant and cold-hardier than a coastal source. Also, some info states that in the right location, western red cedar will grow as fast as 'green giant' and will be bigger in all dimensions than the advertised ultimate size of 'green giant'.

The austree is a fancy name to get your money. It is nothing other than a hybrid willow. Most mail-order nurseries offer these trees. They are easy to propagate so don't buy too many. I bought 10 in 2000 and have 100's now.
I noticed that to get the fastest growth from a hybrid willow is directly sticking them near a water source; such as a pond or stream(drink little fellow, drink). Probably your pond could disappear if you stuck enough along the shores every year.

Many people hate the royal empress tree(paulownia tomentosa), because its a invasive pest in the east. It truly will grow superfast for people in the south with some help. But with all superfast growing trees, the wood is weak. If one has plenty of space for the paulownia, then one should have some fun already. But it is not considered a choice or long-term prospect for one's yard. I bought paulownia tomentosa and paulownia elongata last year, but don't know whether they will be tree-like here. Most sources say zone 6 and above. They tend to die to the ground their first couple years. That's where the stupid ads claim 'zoom 20ft in one year'. That's coming from a established root system.

h20fwlkllr I got my trees from the MO. Department of Conservation this year for the first time, and am pleased with them. Their prices are slightly better than other state nurseries around Tennessee, but if you compare prices on same quantities they are about the same. But the biggest reason I ordered from them is they are willing to sell in smaller lots of trees, and I wanted to order many different species this year. Also they were still in stock on most everything in December, and other states were already sold out of alot of species. I have another small order in with them that should be here any day now. Northern Red Oak must be really popular these days, by December *all* the state nurseries surrounding Tennessee were sold out on them. (And I wanted some) I ordered Shumard Oak which is a good substitute.

Brettski, from the pics of your farm I would agree that your forest is probably ~35 y/o. If the site for the conifers is going to get much shade you'll have to select carefully ... lots of conifers need full sun.

Agreed with everything Lance said about the Royal Empress/Royal Paulownia trees. They're a non-native from Asia that is turning into an invasive. A couple years ago my neighbor planted a couple in his back yard and was talking about how they would grow 20' a year. Despite him watering and babying them and doing everything right to help them out, they were dead in a month I've heard from some other people that they will grow very fast. Their wood is in high demand in some Asian countries for making trinkets and woodcrafts.

Most of these fast growing trees have brittle wood, are short lived, and heavily susceptible to wind and storm damage. In the Spring it seems like in every other yard a long row of Bradford Pears is blooming. After a few years though more and more of them look like someone chucked a grenade into them. They're really bad about being damaged by wind and storms. Another bad thing about the fast growing deciduous trees is that they lose their leaves in the winter, which somewhat nullifies their windbreak and privacy screen benefits. One of the more "solid" fast growing trees you can plant is tulip poplar/yellow poplar. After the roots are established they can grow over 3' a year and they will live a pretty long time. They get huge too, but their natural range doesn't extend into Texas or into any part of Illinois but the very southern tip.

Theo proudly announces:
(....got me again)
(edit; I'm still tryin' to get over the "outdoor tanning spa for mummies". It should be noted that KeithA stopped posting shortly after that "discovery" )

Dang it! I fell for the fancy name trick again! :p

OK Eric...I signed on with the MO. Dept of Cons. for 50 Norway Spruce and 50 Eastern White Pine seedlings.
Actually, it is more than I planned on but further thought has re-routed my thinking. I am really not going to have all my areas of development dialed-in until the end of this Summer, after pushin' the dirt for the pond and surrounding site(s). The only reason I want to get the trees going asap is to get one good season of growth into 'em (impatient and statistically middle-aged...I'm having a hard time accepting the notion of seeing them graduate when I'm 60). So...I decided to buy 'em and put 'em somewhere else. I'll transplant them after the dust settles.
Here is my conundrum....I see 2 options for their first months-year of growth: a) I have plenty of room here at my principal residence. I can till a small zone, fence it in, and keep them well watered. b) I can take them to their new native soil at Liberty (pondsite) and do the same as "a", but not tend to them as conveniently. There may be spans of 2 - 3 weeks without attention.
Both options will be done in areas of full sun. I am leaning toward "b", taking the seedlings directly to their new home zone and soil. I will be back there alot this coming year and able to monitor them fairly well. I think the real payback will come when it is time to move them again. I think they will transplant better without having to take a shakey, long haul in a PU truck. Also, similar soil should be beneficial...?
Any opinions Tree-nutz?

I like plan A. because of the negative consequences I have had with plan B.

Size definetly matters. How big are these seedlings? Pests could wipe out 100 little trees in a hurry. But the biggest problem I had with planting 50norwayspruce/50ponderosapine last year was not pests, but drought wiped out alot. Pests such as deer, rabbits, mice haven't touched them, hmmm. I would say less than half of the norway spruce exist, but somehow I have not lost many ponderosa pines(exhibit more drought tolerance at a young age?). I alternatively planted 50 scotch pine in my nursery and may have lost a couple.

Ok, nevermind about pests devouring them, because by rereading your post it sounds like you'll put fence around them at pondsite. Better care will be whereever your primary residence is. I still think it all depends on the size of stock.

I would plant them at the farm, and let natural selection decide which ones live. Deer will bother some of the white pines but some will do fine too. The deer will leave them alone after they get "head height". My thinking is that you are not talking here about a manicured, suburban lawn. This is rural farmland and you are trying to add a windbreak/privacy screen, and in the process get some conifers growing on the property. For the price of those little 2' seedlings it's not a big deal if some don't do well, nor is it anything to worry about if they don't look perfectly manicured/mulched/etc.

So far the deer are leaving my 60 baby pines alone. But something is having a field day with the yellow poplars ... the top has been eaten out of a good number of them Last weekend I found a big pile of wild turkey feathers and excrement next to my pond. Based on the tracks around the pond it looks like a wildcat may be operating out there.

The tops eaten off your poplars was probably done by a rabbit. They really like to chew on the young poplars for some reason.

The poplars are "ex-large" size seedlings and are already 4' tall. Could it be rabbits?

His name is "Harvey."

I transplanted three 4'-5' poplars (quaking aspen to some) from next to a barn to back near the pond. The deer just kept eating all the leaves and sprouts off until they finally died.

Theo,

"The deer just kept eating all the leaves and sprouts off until they finally died.".....

The trees, the deer or both??

OK, I deserve that. :rolleyes:

(For the reality unchallenged, it was the trees. )

When I was a kid young poplar sprouts were my favorite choice when sent to the woods by my mom to get my own switch. They would break easy!

You would not believe the number of poplar sprouts I have 4'-5' comming up along logging roads! There has to be several hundred!

Ric admits undermining corporal punishment:
...I never got any further than my bedroom and had very little input regarding choice of a belt...damn thing never broke, either

My Papaw always used a hickory switch, and they don't break Dad didn't even bother waiting on a switch

...just a note to provide feedback on the seedlings from the Mo. Dept of Cons. I purchased 50 Norway Spruce and 50 Eastern White Pine. They were deld UPS in one nice, tight bundle (kinda surprised by the package; the top 1/4 of the bundle was completely uncovered...kinda like a bundle of flowers). They were 15" - 24" tall, plus root. Anyway, they seem to have traveled well. I am no tree expert by any stretch, but I have ordered from a couple different mail order houses. I would say this was an outstanding value for $30 delivered. We opted to plant them in a small prepared nursery area at the principal residence to keep an eye on 'em for the first year or two.
Thanks for the sourcing tip, Eric. Good value.

I have a few of the Austrees at my place. Deer love to munch on them. I have a row of 3 year old trees about 10-12 ft. tall. They certainly do love water. I planted a few in the waterway between the ponds and they seem to grow well down there, but the deer keep them grazed to about 3 ft. tall.

The best results are on a drip line irrigation. I ordered some for our company cabin and they did well on the irrigation line, until the deer and grasshoppers took their toll. They do sell some deer repellant (also available at Gemplers) which is also quite expensive.

Final thoughts, if they are going to be near the house and looked after quite frequently, they will grow very fast and do well, but they are not a plant and forget kind of tree.

To keep the deer from eating on your trees, try powdered hot peppers mixed with warm water. Spray the mix on the trees every 1-2 weeks and they will leave them alone.

Way to go Brettski!

Two weeks ago I planted another small order ... 25 redbud, 25 black oak, and 25 more white pine. Still wish I had planted even more pine this Winter and Spring, but it's about time to quit planting for this season. I planted almost 600 trees so far, and it looks like 95%+ survived. The worst species this Spring (in terms of mortality) were the Shortleaf pines. I'm going to place another big order of various species this Fall.

The deer have finally quit bothering my pines and poplars and they are growing well. I guess now that the growing season has started there is more palatable stuff to eat than trees.

I got my annual Spring conifer order (30 Douglas Fir and 30 Norway Spruce) from the local Soil & Water office and planted them last week. More privacy plantings between us and the neighbors.

Has anyone used Grow-Tubes? They are translucent tubes to put around trees to protect them while they grow quite fact.