Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Big Golden Shiners

I recently bought some land with a 15 acre pond. I've only fished it twice, but it is evident that it has many big Golden Shiners (the size of my hand). I've also caught crappie, but have yet to catch or see any bream. The bass have all been between 2 and 3 lbs and look really healthy. Someone caught a 13 lb bass in this pond last year.

Should I worry about the lack of bream? Are Golden Shiners better forage for bass than bream? Should I try to get rid of the crappie and put in adult bream?

Dwimr, welcome to the forum, hang on someone with plenty of info will be along.

Welcome to the forum Dwimr!

Congrats on the purchase, 15 acres is one heck of a nice sized pond.

Big golden shiners(GSH) do compete directly with bream(bluegill(BG)). Usually not to the point that they extirpate them from the water in which they are found together, but may be affect their growth rate. Have you tried to specifically fish for BG in your pond? If you are just using methods to fish for bass, this may be why you are not catching any bream but rather just bass and crappie

A pond with large number of good sized bass such as yours, with a number of 2-3 pound bass and bass going over 10 pounds, it is unusual for their to be such a healthy amount of large GSH. GSH are a soft rayed(don't have sharp spines) and thus are a highly preferred food source for bass. More so than BG, as bass will target GSH over BG in most cases...

I would try fishing solely for BG and see if you are successful. The bass should be on their nests or close to nesting in your area right now and the BG and other bream will not be far behind. If you aren't able to see bream nesting by mid May or catch any, then you may indeed have a shortage of bream.

There are many guys on here who would love to have a healthy population of GSH in their pond to help fatten their bass up which it seems they are doing in your pond. With large bass in your pond, chances are the GSH will not get overly abundant.

A lot of this depends on what your goals are...

I would keep every crappie you catch. You will never get rid of them all and the ones that are left will get that much bigger. Keep an eye out for bream nests as the spring progresses. Try to focus on catching them a couple times and see if you have any luck. Take photos of the fish you catch and post them on here and we can ID them for you so you know what species of bream you have if any. If you have the desire and funds, you can consider electroshocking your pond to get a better idea as to what the fish community is in it... This is an excellent way to learn what fish are in your pond, their size structure and will give you a good idea as to what management route you should take. If it determined that you do not have bream(which I highly doubt) or they are in your pond but in low numbers(possible) then you can look into stocking larger size fingerlings to help rebuild your bream population.

Howdy, Dwimr.

Golden Shiners are usually preferred by LMB as forage - no hard spines. In most ponds with bass and BG, the GSH tend to go down in numbers because the bass like to eat them and the BG outreproduce them.

It sounds like you have an atypical situation, with two predators, plentiful Shiners, and no bream. Do you know how old the pond is? (I'm wondering if it is fairly new.)

We would normally advise stocking BG (and RES), since BG are usually the only forage that can spawn enough to keep up with the voracity of LMB. That may still be the case with your pond - or something unusual could be going on that are keeping predator numbers down (LMB vs Crappie???).

Please keep track of the fish you angle and observe in the pond and let us know what else becomes apparent. It sounds like an interesting case.

I really appreciate the help.

I just got word that my nephews caught a 7 pound and two 5 pound bass today in the pond.

It's an old mill pond and hasn't been drained in over 25 years. Blackwater, lily pads, standing timber. There is an enormous beaver lodge. Even a little gator.

I tried fishing for bream with crickets around the dock, but kept catching huge golden shiners. I haven't seen any beds yet, but I'll definitely keep an eye out. I forgot to mention that we have caught some jackfish, too. The pond has a pretty bold creek running into it, so I think it has a little of everything in it.

I've put the word out to keep all crappie as advised. I'm trying to find somebody in my area to electrofish the pond. I'm going to talk to the SC DNR this week to see if they can recommend someone.

Once again, thanks for the advice. I've subscribed to the Pond Boss magazine and bought a couple of Bob Lusk's books.

Sounds like you have a little gem there... I'd keep all the jackfish(bowfin) you catch as well. They are direct competitors with your bass and will eat plenty of bream as well. I love blackwater ponds! I fish a mill pond that sounds much like yours but it is open to public fishing. Sometimes millponds don't support your typical bream fishery such as bluegill. They may be too acidic or have the wrong chemistry. Millponds often contain fish like fliers, pumpkinseeds, warmouth, chain pickerel, creek chubsuckers and other soft water species...

Is anyone ever sorry they added GSH to a pond? I was thinking of adding a box from Anderson to my 15 acre pond for forage for the lmb already there and cats that I am going to add. I won't be cursing while catching 9 inch GSH in a few years, will I?

I was, because I ended up managing for big BG and had 2-3 years when the bass were eating GSH instead of BG, and the Shiners were eating much of my fish food.

I don't think anyone who wants big bass would be sorry for having GSH, though.

Aren't jackfish chain pickerel?

Another regional name for chain pickerel is jackfish...