Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Mail order trees

There is a parallel thread going right now that has kinda clipped this subject...let's give it a thread and see who knows what.
Who has history with mail order trees, what kinda trees, any satisfaction and the ultimate growth results?

We worked with Carino Nurseries in Indiana, PA about 8 years ago. We planted 50 seedling Norway Spruce in the Fall. About 1/2 didn't come back in the Spring; they were all replaced by the Nursery. Ultimately, they struggled the first 3 years and we lost about 10, but now are taking off. They are about 8 - 12 feet tall now. About 7 years ago, we bought 35 Gray Birch from Carino (same white bark as White Birch, but no exfoliation). Holy smokes, did these things take off. They showed up in a box 4" square and 36" long. Today, they are 30' tall, caliper 2" - 4"....Beautiful white bark year 'round and nice yellow fall leaf color.

I'm guessing you're talking about buying bareroot seedlings in quantity.

My parent's are in the Tree Farm program in Kentucky. Growing up my siblings and I planted countless state nursery trees on our parent's farm in Kentucky. Most of them were pines of some variety. The family farm is hardwood dominated, and Dad likes planting pines for windbreaks and wildlife. Dad is still planting trees every year, and just got done planting several hundred pecan, loblolly pine, silky dogwood, and bald cypress. I've also bought several trees off Ebay in the past and have had excellent luck with them.

The state seedlings are small and it's illegal to resell them, but they are inexpensive and will do well if taken care of. We always planted with KBC dibble bars, although if you're planting over 500 trees it might be a good idea to rent a tractor drawn mechanical planter. The time of year the seedlings are planted, and the moisture level in the soil are very important. The trees should be planted in late winter, before budout and the the best soil consistency is moist but not soaking wet. Even more important is how the seedlings are taken care of before planting. If they aren't being planted immediately they should be heeled in. The roots should be kept moist at all times before planting. We walk around with the trees in a partially water filled 5 gallon bucket. People who are even more serious about thier planting use tree bags. If you plant at the right time of year and right soil moisture, the survival rate will be high. They will grow very slowly the first growing season as the roots are established. The 2nd season they will take off if not choked out by tall grass and weeds. Depending on location, deer and rodents will bother some trees quite a bit too. Another thing to consider when buying mail order is the tree source. Trees acclimate to some degree to thier climate, and it's best to buy trees from near you or that were grown as seedlings in a similar climate.

I'm married with youngins' and no longer on the family farm, but my parent's instilled in me a love of land, the outdoors, trees, wildlife, fishing/hunting,etc. My wife & I bought a small farm 7 miles from our house recently. We will probably build there when the kids are a little older, but for now it's just a family playground and nearby place for me to fish and hunt. I'm just finishing up planting almost 500 trees out there. We want more woods and wildlife and decided to reforest a couple acres of pasture in native trees. Our woods are also dominated by yellow poplar, black cherry, and black walnut ... we want to improve the diversity of the timber stand. The perimeter of this reforest area is being planted in all native fruit trees and berrys. Lately I'm particularly interested in paw paw trees and other native fruit trees. I used an OST dibble bar to plant all my trees, and planted them over 3 days as time and weather allowed. Everything is budding out and it looks like just about everything is surviving so far other than a few shortleaf pine. I planted most of it in mid-late February. I'm going over after work tomorrow to check out the trees. (And see how much water is in the new ponds too, after a couple rains in the last few days Here's what I just got done planting:

25 mixed hickory
25 red mulberry
25 wild plum
25 shortleaf pine
50 white pine
25 green ash
25 shumard oak
25 persimmon
25 white oak
50 yellow poplar
25 chokecherry
25 blackberry bushes
25 redbud
25 black oak
5 paw paw
4 raspberry bushes
10 loblolly pine
10 pecan

I'm not expecting much out of the trees this year other than survival & root growth. I expect them to grow like weeds during the 2007 growing season. I ordered all the trees from the Missourri state nursery. Their prices were slightly better than all the other states surrounding Tennessee, they were willing to sell in quantities as small as 25, and they were actually in stock for most of their trees. I tried initially last December to order from Kentucky or Tennessee state nurseries, but they were out of stock on lots of stuff we wanted. It's just about too late to plant here in middle Tennessee now. Everything is coming out of dormancy and leaves are popping out on the trees. But I'm planning on planting several hundred more trees next winter.

Sorry for the length of this post, but hopefully someone found it interesting. I'm a tree nerd (*not* a treehugger) and not afraid to admit it. Trees are very interesting to me, especially growing up on a farm with parents who encouraged that interest. From some other posts I can tell there are others here interested in trees.

Bravo, Eric! Glad you're on the forum.
Bob Lusk has recently indicated interest in expanding this forum and the mag to delve further into surrounding pond habitat and pond-scapes. There was a short thread to this effect and it garnered interest. I can see that you are also "on board". So am I.
My little piece of pond heaven was actually conceived as a piece of natural timber heaven with the addition of a nice water feature. With all due respect to the multitude of pondmeisters, it remains that way. What this forum has done for me, tho, has pointed out the importance, potential, and benefit of taking a water feature to a much higher level; a water habitat, teeming with life. So now, I have a project of timber heaven serenely punctuated with a marvelous focal point...the pond. In my little world, expanding the level of knowledge-sharing WRT the dry side of the water line would be a super benefit. As I read stories and see the pic's of the gorgeous pond-scapes, I know that I stand with brethren of similar creed.

Eric: Thanks for the great tree post.

Never apologize for a lengthy post so full of information. Those who are interested will wish it was longer. Those who aren't interested didn't have to read it.

I've been planting trees since I bought my place in '97. I'm at about 6,000 and counting. I always planted in the spring, and will do so again this year, focusing more on pines.

This past fall, I tried something a bit different for me and planted about 800 (pecan, walnut, hickory, hard maple, various oaks). ISU nursery says many times trees planted in the fall will do better the first summer than those planted in spring. They are not shocked as much and start growing at the very first opportunity, rather than having to wait for me to plant and then get over the transplant shock all at the same time. Pines need to go in in spring, as they usually won't survive a fall planting around here.

I also found out that hardly anyone plants fall trees around here, so it's much easier to schedule the county conservation board's tree planter. I can get it any day I want it and take it back whenever.

Trees come 100 to a (large) plastic-lined paper sack. I throw all sacks in the truck and leave them in there until the last minute before planting. Delivered UPS for about $1.00 per hundred, I can also get them exactly when I'm ready for them, instead of waiting for them to be delivered en masse to the county for pickup...right when everyone wants the planter.

Many of the first year's plantings are getting some real size to them, and wifey says I need to hire a buddy with a tree spade to move some of them nearer the house. I'm amazed at the size of some of the pin oaks. MAYBE even a few acorns this year. IF so, I start trapping squirrels in town to transplant...

Planting trees and shrubs is a HUGE part of my overall plan. It's getting to the point where I really have to decide how many more to put in. I'd like to keep part of my 50 acres as pasture (in fact, a 2 acre plot of native prairie grass this spring fulfills my contract with NRCS). I want as much diversity as possible.

Talk about rambling...but I love it and COME ON SPRING!

I've ordered from carino nurseries the past 3 years. Always receive bigger stock than I am expecting. I never lose any of the stock through their fault. But various things take their toll in this climate such as drought and winterkill. I have resolved to planting every tree I buy from mail-order nurseries in a nursery bed myself. Then I grow them in the nursery one or 2 years and they have the size to compete against the elements.

I have lost too many trees to pests such as voles, mice, rabbits, and deer; that my patience is zill to none.

With shipping costs getting higher and higher, I also am buying more tree seed(which is cheap to ship) and unloading it in blocks in my nursery. But I have heard that people direct-seed trees into fields. And with such a high population of seedlings, the predation pressure doesn't effect the tree stand's future.

I have also added bamboo to my forest collection. Some people hate it and some people love it. There are various kinds, including a native bamboo that northern people can grow.

Matt I've always heard that folks in zone 5 and lower should plant in the fall, and zone 6 up plant in the Spring. Like you, I've also heard always plant pines in late winter/early Spring. I've heard alot of reasons for both arguments and am not sure who's right. That being said the state nurseries in this area won't start shipping until December so that makes me think late winter/early Spring is the way to go for my area.

We are 35 miles north of Nashville, in what I think is zone 6b. Nashville is probably zone 7, but 15 miles north of Nashville you go up a steep ridge for a mile or two and come up out of the enormous bowl that covers several states called the Cumberland Basin. As close as we are to Nashville the trees still leaf out a couple weeks later here, grass comes out of dormancy a couple weeks later, and in general the weather is a couple weeks "behind" Nashville. If it snows here and in Nashville, the snow might melt in one day in Nashville but linger for a few days here. Guess it's just the difference in being in the Cumberland Basin and above the Rim.

We planted some small pin oaks, river birch, bald cypress, and black tupelo (black gum) at our house 4 years ago. It's amazing how big the pin oaks and river birches have already gotten. The black tupelos & bald cypress' are very healthy but have not grown nearly as fast. I'm surprised the bald cypress haven't grown faster, as they are planted on a creek bank. At our land we are going to keep 4 or 5 acres in pasture, and I intend for all the rest to eventually be wooded. I've done a little "direct seeding" of my own last fall and over the winter. Not very scientific but I've been tossing Virginia and Loblolly pine cones, hickory nuts, black walnuts, and pecans all over the reforest areas. Some will probably take root

Matt (Johnny Appleseed)Clark says:
Holy Spudbar, Batman....that's alotta trees! I am blessed in that our little project was hand- selected for it's existing timber AND potential for a nice pond within. As I have noted before, tho, I have not one single conifer. I still see myself filling in the smaller, unforested areas, with strategically placed pines...likely Norway Spruce.
I am intrigued by the government-backed programs that Eric and Matt elude to. I don't know squat about them. I imagine that I will get exposure when I finally get to working with the WHIP program, likely a year from now. In the meantime, I want to plug in about 30 Norway Spruces right away to get a year of growth on 'em. Should I go back to Carino Nurseries or other suggestions? 2 or 3 year seedlings/transplants would be perfect.

I've had a little experience with trees recently. A local retired nursery guy gave me some pointers on establishing trees here in Minnesota. I'm mostly interested in evergreens of various kinds since my property is heavily wooded with deciduous trees. Lance mentioned that he likes to grow the trees for a while before planting. That's what we've done as well. I buy from a Minnesota nursery to make sure I've got climatized stock. I don't buy any bare root. Tried that and they take too much care. So I buy from a place where they grow them in bedding containers kind of the way you get flowers and vegetables for your garden. I get trees that are 6 to 12 inches tall for 50 to 60 cents each. They have a root ball in soil that is an inch diameter and 6 inches long. They ship them UPS. I plant them in 2 gallon containers for 2 years before putting in the ground. Depending on the species and start size they can be 2 to 3 feet tall when planted. I've found this to provide excellent survival rates and fast growth even the first year in the ground. I also use a special symbiotic bacteria applied to the soil to help them grow. This would be a lot of work if your planting 1000's of trees at once but a few hundred at a time is not too hard. It's worked so well that my kids started a business selling the containerized trees and it's catching on around here.

At Dudley's request I contacted the supplier I got my apple trees from & he does ship anywhere in the US. He also now has a website: http://www.centuryfarmorchards.com/
Highly recommend his trees.
BTW, If you have a particular tree you would like to have more of you can send him a clipping & he will graft it for you.

There is a tree grower near me that is using what they call the "pot in a pot" method of growing trees for sale. They have a large bed of gravel with pots sunk in it. They then put a potted tree about the size of a pencil in that pot, hook up drip irrigation w/fertilzer and the trees grow like crazy. The man working there said the trees that were 3"-4" caliper were only 3 years old. These were Cleveland Pears, Various Oaks and Maples. The poplars and River Birch were even larger. They were selling them for about $80 each. When someone wanted to buy one they just pulled the grown tree out and replaced it with another potted sapling.

Ryan, that sounds basically like a hydroponic setup. We do the same thing only our pots are full of soil that goes with the tree like a root ball. Difference between that and the typical burlap root ball is that since our trees are grown from a small root ball into a bigger one and never leave the pot til you plant them there is never any cut roots to stunt the tree. What we do is popular in Australia where they grow trees up to 6 inch caliper in giant 200 gallon pots. Harder to move than a bare root tree but much better survival I imagine.

Brettski:

It's a lotta trees, it seems, but it's not close to covering the whole place...maybe 10-12 acres at most. Counting the ponds and the streambed and I've only got maybe another 15 acres of "grass".

Another advantage I see is that I mowed the planting strips last fall with the tractor and SCALPED it down to nothing. Now, I can run the ATV sprayer right over the trees as soon as the grass begins to green up. Previously, I always worried about spraying over the seedlings. Not supposed to hurt them (Roundup) but if they've started budding, it really puts a time crunch on the project.

I hate to spray beforehand, because it's really hard to tell how much area you need to kill off. If my "help" plants the trees a foot too close together, I'm short several hundred feet of plantings. Too far apart and I've gotta hook up the mower to clear more strips. I don't gripe...they don't charge much for the help.

As far as planting pines in the fall, it has more to do with the root mass than anything else. If you would plant them in early OCT and got plenty of rain to soak them in and maybe they even got a start at rooting in, they'd probably be OK. This past fall (drought) was pretty tough. I hope they all survive. Dry fall leads to "freezer burn" on the roots when the ground freezes dry. Pines simply have much finer more delicate roots and no tap. Plus they don't really go dormant...they just grow extremely sloooooowly. No moisture...they die. Hopefully, in springtime there's more moisture for them to glom onto and survive.

In case anyone is interested in trees with a soil plug on the roots I just checked what I paid for my trees. I had it way too high in my previous post. I got them for 19 cents each. I think that's not too bad for 6 to 12 inch trees rooted in soil (not bare root). And they didn't come from the county or DNR so you can do what you like with them. Bought them at Itasca nursery in northern MN so they should be hardy.

Presumably... Itasca Greenhouse do I have the right Itasca? I'm willing to take a shot...I could see plugging in 25 - 50 Norway Spruce in the small area I want to get planted yet this Spring. I would even go so far as to put a small chicken wire cage around 'em for a couple of years. It would be worth it; the zone is critical for a visual neighbor-screen.

Wow...the pricing is good, but the size leaves a bit to be desired. Rabbits and deer would see them as garnish around here. 2"-6" seedling...

IA State Forest Nursery has them for $0.30 each, but they are from 18"-24" tall...harder to plant, though, with that hair-ball of a root mass...

Brettski, yes you've got the right place. I've bought from them every year for about 5 years now and it is very rare that the trees aren't more like 6 to 12 inches. Depends upon what you buy and how good a year they had. All I know is that they come in what they call Styroblocks which are styrofoam blocks with individual holes for over 100 trees. They put dirt in there and grow them. Like I said before I always plant them in containers for 2 years and then move to the field. Just gotta do the container phase correcly to get good growth. I'd say about 90 percent survive this way. Some trees will be over 2 feet tall in 2 years when you put them in field. You have to make a deposit on the blocks and send them back. Not a big deal though since you just tape several together and ship UPS or whatever. I think the deposit was only a couple bucks per block. They are very light so don't cost much to ship.

I live in northern Oklahoma and have tried to plant trees on my 80 acre farm the past two years. That spread out and the fact that we have relatively poor soil for trees and a major drought have taken a serious toll on my efforts. I tried to water last year but lost my help (wife had a baby, lost the interest in riding across the fields in the truck), so almost all died. I bought another 500 this year but as of yet have had no significant rain (over .25 inches) in over 6 months, so I think this year's batch are gonna be goners as well. Hopefully, next year will be a better story.

Very interesting proposal, bz, but I don't wanna deal with the pot thing. If I'm gonna put in that time, I'll fork out the bigger dough and just buy bigger trees. I want to put in the time and care up front, plug 'em into the soil, and have the only maintenance be making sure they have sufficient water. I have had decent luck with bare root...based on my above described plan, would your styroblock plants be any advantage as an immediate planting into their final plot?

Survival rate will be higher with plug seedlings because the roots are left more intact at planting. But they usually cost a little more and they're harder to plant. The prices at the Itasca site are good, if the source wasn't so far from Tennessee I'd buy some from there next winter. There is a plug dibble bar available but I haven't tried one. They cost roughly twice as much as a standard KBC or OST dibble. They look like they might be difficult to use if the ground isn't really moist. It takes somewhere in the neighborhood of 250-600 trees to re-forest 1 acre, depending on the tree density/spacing you desire & if you are planting in a "grid" or randomly. If money is a major object bareroot state nursery seedlings will almost always be the most inexpensive option just behind direct seeding.

One thing worth mentioning is that most land will eventually turn back into woodland if you leave it alone and keep livestock off it. (Some notable exceptions are certain prairie areas, desert, and some swampland) The point of planting trees is to shave time off the process and improve timber stand diversity. If you don't "jumpstart" the process by tree planting natural progression will pick what grows first, plus there might be erosion problems.

In my area if you let an old field go it will grow up in grass, weeds, maybe briars, and a handful of scattered volunteer seedlings the first year. The volunteers will be whatever is "planted" or excreted by birds/animals/wind. Usually the first tree to show up here is eastern red cedars. It depends on what trees are in nearby forests, but black walnut, sassafras, viburnum, and black cherry are some others that will show up quickly on their own. After 8-10 years the volunteers will be large enough and numerous enough to start choking out the grass/weeds and become a thicketed immature forest. It keeps going from that point on as some of the small quick growing trees get shaded out by larger ones, and some understory trees start to establish themselves. The climax trees will start filling in the canopy and with 20 years you will start to have a real forest. By planting you can shave time off this beginning period, start the natural organic material breakdown process in the soil faster, and decide to some degree what type of timber you want in the stand. There really isn't much old growth forest left in the US, just about everything has been logged recently enough that a true natural ecosystem hasn't been able to fully establish itself. That's changing though ... over the last decade or so alot more trees have been planted than have been harvested.

The Mo. Dept of Con. nursery has nice trees at a very reasonable price. I have bought from them for years and have had great luck. I just recieved my latest shipment from them of 150 pine and spruce trees that are 18-30" tall for $18. Even if all but a couple die, it is alot cheaper than most nurseries.

Eric,
All my early succession has already occurred about 30 or 40 years ago in the form of hardwoods. In fact, I have to clear some of the thinner pole timber to daylight an area of about .25 ac to plug in the conifers. Their main application is to create a visual screen across a property line. I want to discourage neighborly thoughts of a nice gazebo to enjoy my (future) pond view (don't get me wrong...I have V nice neighbors; it's more about control and MY view). Anyway, as mentioned in prev posts, my conifer project is minimal comparatively...maybe 25 - 50 trees max. I can afford to spend a little more $ and a little more time to plant and protect them. After that, tho, the only other time I want to spend is "waiting".

By the sound of your description you just gave, it sounds like your previously mentioned green giant cedar would be a good idea . Maybe a cheaper option would be western red cedar, but seed source has to be in consideration for specified hardy genotype.

Something most spruces and pines won't do when the crowns close in and shade is ever present, is create a visual barrier. Their foliage on the the lower branches will be sparse and the screen effect will be gone.
The western red cedar has great shade tolerance and its lower branches will should retain green foliage throughout life. I'm not sure how well the green giant is represented by its parentage. But I did think I've read that it has shade tolerance and retains lower foliage.

Just a thought.

Has anyone had any experience with the supposedly worldest fastest growing trees? They supposedly grow at incredible rates. I am looking for a tree to screen me from a highway and at my age I can't wait too long for them to get big.

Are you talking about Rocky Mountain Austree by any chance?

Bruce,
There are a couple of trees that I am interested in. One is the Royal Empress, it grows up to 10 feet the first year and be 25 feet tall in a couple of years, supposedly. It is a shade type tree with purplish blooms. The other is an evergree called the Thuja Green Giant. It supposedly grows at a rate of 3 to 5 feet per year.

OK. I've got the Austrees and have had mixed results. I'm unfamiliar with the RE or the Thuja. I'm interested in learning though.

Thuja Green Giant thread
(I think Thuja got demoted a little from inflated advertising promotions)

Lance...
I trust you have some experience with Western Red Cedar? What is the growth rate?

OK ALL YOU TREE NUTS, let's get the poop (I mean woo-woo) on the Royal Empress. Also, Bruce needs to kick in a little bit more on the Austrees (speak softly so the BG don't get jealous)

Does that make Bruce an Austree-an? If so, he would be eligible to join the Von Gallus Family Singers for the road production of "The Sound of Music."

No experience with the western red cedar. Just countless hours I do of research of my passion, trees.
I did plant a western red cedar last year, but its obviously too soon to decide anything from that. In some references its stated that the western red cedar can grow in the east, but an interior seed source needs to be used because it'll be more drought-tolerant and cold-hardier than a coastal source. Also, some info states that in the right location, western red cedar will grow as fast as 'green giant' and will be bigger in all dimensions than the advertised ultimate size of 'green giant'.

The austree is a fancy name to get your money. It is nothing other than a hybrid willow. Most mail-order nurseries offer these trees. They are easy to propagate so don't buy too many. I bought 10 in 2000 and have 100's now.
I noticed that to get the fastest growth from a hybrid willow is directly sticking them near a water source; such as a pond or stream(drink little fellow, drink). Probably your pond could disappear if you stuck enough along the shores every year.

Many people hate the royal empress tree(paulownia tomentosa), because its a invasive pest in the east. It truly will grow superfast for people in the south with some help. But with all superfast growing trees, the wood is weak. If one has plenty of space for the paulownia, then one should have some fun already. But it is not considered a choice or long-term prospect for one's yard. I bought paulownia tomentosa and paulownia elongata last year, but don't know whether they will be tree-like here. Most sources say zone 6 and above. They tend to die to the ground their first couple years. That's where the stupid ads claim 'zoom 20ft in one year'. That's coming from a established root system.

h20fwlkllr I got my trees from the MO. Department of Conservation this year for the first time, and am pleased with them. Their prices are slightly better than other state nurseries around Tennessee, but if you compare prices on same quantities they are about the same. But the biggest reason I ordered from them is they are willing to sell in smaller lots of trees, and I wanted to order many different species this year. Also they were still in stock on most everything in December, and other states were already sold out of alot of species. I have another small order in with them that should be here any day now. Northern Red Oak must be really popular these days, by December *all* the state nurseries surrounding Tennessee were sold out on them. (And I wanted some) I ordered Shumard Oak which is a good substitute.

Brettski, from the pics of your farm I would agree that your forest is probably ~35 y/o. If the site for the conifers is going to get much shade you'll have to select carefully ... lots of conifers need full sun.

Agreed with everything Lance said about the Royal Empress/Royal Paulownia trees. They're a non-native from Asia that is turning into an invasive. A couple years ago my neighbor planted a couple in his back yard and was talking about how they would grow 20' a year. Despite him watering and babying them and doing everything right to help them out, they were dead in a month I've heard from some other people that they will grow very fast. Their wood is in high demand in some Asian countries for making trinkets and woodcrafts.

Most of these fast growing trees have brittle wood, are short lived, and heavily susceptible to wind and storm damage. In the Spring it seems like in every other yard a long row of Bradford Pears is blooming. After a few years though more and more of them look like someone chucked a grenade into them. They're really bad about being damaged by wind and storms. Another bad thing about the fast growing deciduous trees is that they lose their leaves in the winter, which somewhat nullifies their windbreak and privacy screen benefits. One of the more "solid" fast growing trees you can plant is tulip poplar/yellow poplar. After the roots are established they can grow over 3' a year and they will live a pretty long time. They get huge too, but their natural range doesn't extend into Texas or into any part of Illinois but the very southern tip.

Theo proudly announces:
(....got me again)
(edit; I'm still tryin' to get over the "outdoor tanning spa for mummies". It should be noted that KeithA stopped posting shortly after that "discovery" )

Dang it! I fell for the fancy name trick again! :p

OK Eric...I signed on with the MO. Dept of Cons. for 50 Norway Spruce and 50 Eastern White Pine seedlings.
Actually, it is more than I planned on but further thought has re-routed my thinking. I am really not going to have all my areas of development dialed-in until the end of this Summer, after pushin' the dirt for the pond and surrounding site(s). The only reason I want to get the trees going asap is to get one good season of growth into 'em (impatient and statistically middle-aged...I'm having a hard time accepting the notion of seeing them graduate when I'm 60). So...I decided to buy 'em and put 'em somewhere else. I'll transplant them after the dust settles.
Here is my conundrum....I see 2 options for their first months-year of growth: a) I have plenty of room here at my principal residence. I can till a small zone, fence it in, and keep them well watered. b) I can take them to their new native soil at Liberty (pondsite) and do the same as "a", but not tend to them as conveniently. There may be spans of 2 - 3 weeks without attention.
Both options will be done in areas of full sun. I am leaning toward "b", taking the seedlings directly to their new home zone and soil. I will be back there alot this coming year and able to monitor them fairly well. I think the real payback will come when it is time to move them again. I think they will transplant better without having to take a shakey, long haul in a PU truck. Also, similar soil should be beneficial...?
Any opinions Tree-nutz?

I like plan A. because of the negative consequences I have had with plan B.

Size definetly matters. How big are these seedlings? Pests could wipe out 100 little trees in a hurry. But the biggest problem I had with planting 50norwayspruce/50ponderosapine last year was not pests, but drought wiped out alot. Pests such as deer, rabbits, mice haven't touched them, hmmm. I would say less than half of the norway spruce exist, but somehow I have not lost many ponderosa pines(exhibit more drought tolerance at a young age?). I alternatively planted 50 scotch pine in my nursery and may have lost a couple.

Ok, nevermind about pests devouring them, because by rereading your post it sounds like you'll put fence around them at pondsite. Better care will be whereever your primary residence is. I still think it all depends on the size of stock.

I would plant them at the farm, and let natural selection decide which ones live. Deer will bother some of the white pines but some will do fine too. The deer will leave them alone after they get "head height". My thinking is that you are not talking here about a manicured, suburban lawn. This is rural farmland and you are trying to add a windbreak/privacy screen, and in the process get some conifers growing on the property. For the price of those little 2' seedlings it's not a big deal if some don't do well, nor is it anything to worry about if they don't look perfectly manicured/mulched/etc.

So far the deer are leaving my 60 baby pines alone. But something is having a field day with the yellow poplars ... the top has been eaten out of a good number of them Last weekend I found a big pile of wild turkey feathers and excrement next to my pond. Based on the tracks around the pond it looks like a wildcat may be operating out there.

The tops eaten off your poplars was probably done by a rabbit. They really like to chew on the young poplars for some reason.

The poplars are "ex-large" size seedlings and are already 4' tall. Could it be rabbits?

His name is "Harvey."

I transplanted three 4'-5' poplars (quaking aspen to some) from next to a barn to back near the pond. The deer just kept eating all the leaves and sprouts off until they finally died.

Theo,

"The deer just kept eating all the leaves and sprouts off until they finally died.".....

The trees, the deer or both??

OK, I deserve that. :rolleyes:

(For the reality unchallenged, it was the trees. )

When I was a kid young poplar sprouts were my favorite choice when sent to the woods by my mom to get my own switch. They would break easy!

You would not believe the number of poplar sprouts I have 4'-5' comming up along logging roads! There has to be several hundred!

Ric admits undermining corporal punishment:
...I never got any further than my bedroom and had very little input regarding choice of a belt...damn thing never broke, either

My Papaw always used a hickory switch, and they don't break Dad didn't even bother waiting on a switch

...just a note to provide feedback on the seedlings from the Mo. Dept of Cons. I purchased 50 Norway Spruce and 50 Eastern White Pine. They were deld UPS in one nice, tight bundle (kinda surprised by the package; the top 1/4 of the bundle was completely uncovered...kinda like a bundle of flowers). They were 15" - 24" tall, plus root. Anyway, they seem to have traveled well. I am no tree expert by any stretch, but I have ordered from a couple different mail order houses. I would say this was an outstanding value for $30 delivered. We opted to plant them in a small prepared nursery area at the principal residence to keep an eye on 'em for the first year or two.
Thanks for the sourcing tip, Eric. Good value.

I have a few of the Austrees at my place. Deer love to munch on them. I have a row of 3 year old trees about 10-12 ft. tall. They certainly do love water. I planted a few in the waterway between the ponds and they seem to grow well down there, but the deer keep them grazed to about 3 ft. tall.

The best results are on a drip line irrigation. I ordered some for our company cabin and they did well on the irrigation line, until the deer and grasshoppers took their toll. They do sell some deer repellant (also available at Gemplers) which is also quite expensive.

Final thoughts, if they are going to be near the house and looked after quite frequently, they will grow very fast and do well, but they are not a plant and forget kind of tree.

To keep the deer from eating on your trees, try powdered hot peppers mixed with warm water. Spray the mix on the trees every 1-2 weeks and they will leave them alone.

Way to go Brettski!

Two weeks ago I planted another small order ... 25 redbud, 25 black oak, and 25 more white pine. Still wish I had planted even more pine this Winter and Spring, but it's about time to quit planting for this season. I planted almost 600 trees so far, and it looks like 95%+ survived. The worst species this Spring (in terms of mortality) were the Shortleaf pines. I'm going to place another big order of various species this Fall.

The deer have finally quit bothering my pines and poplars and they are growing well. I guess now that the growing season has started there is more palatable stuff to eat than trees.

I got my annual Spring conifer order (30 Douglas Fir and 30 Norway Spruce) from the local Soil & Water office and planted them last week. More privacy plantings between us and the neighbors.

Has anyone used Grow-Tubes? They are translucent tubes to put around trees to protect them while they grow quite fact.

I don't like grow tubes. Supposedly, they suppose to increase growth and protect against animals. But around here, bucks are attracted to them during rut and its not fun.

Also, it seems like I get more winter topkill with the tree tubes on.

Most around here don't use them. Cost more than the trees, but, supposedly they're reusable. One buddy did use them on the first couple hundred trees he planted and it made a difference. Those trees ARE bigger than more recent plantings. He said he can afford to plant 3 times as many trees without the tubes and accept 10% loss...just math to me.

Thanks, I actually found a couple of University of Maryland articles on them that shed a lot of light. One was a pro acticle, the other was con. My neighbor is using them this year, I guess I'll see how he does.

Lance, what I've read is that some people recommend taking the tubes off early enough in the fall to allow the trees to ease into dormacy. The tubes can act like greenhouses and cause big swings in temperature. But I was also hoping to keep the deer off the trees more, not attract them. Big minus in my book.

Anybody got a picture of the tubes?

We have no choice but to use the tubes due to damage from deer, rabbits, mice, etc. I've used the solid tubes and the mesh. The mesh is the only way to go because it allows the wind to vent. The solid tubes blow over and break the bamboo stakes. Other advantages are that you don't need cable ties with the mesh, you can thread the stakes right through it. I've found that you need to put two stakes in each tube to prevent the wind from rotating them, which augers a hole with a single stake.

Haven't had the deer pull any out yet. Ordered mine from Itasca Greenhouse. They do cost more than the trees but we've planted hundreds and I'd rather protect them than have to do it over again. Tubes

(I am going to practice overdue restraint and NOT post a pic of Fee Waybill and the gang)

...tubes, schmubes.
Whatever happenened to using good old fashioned chicken wire with a couple of #4 rebars? Am I missin' sumthin?

Brettski:

Chick wire and rebar is OK...but cutting about 1000 pieces of rebar aint cheap either...and them bolt cutters get heavy...

....ooops
at work, we call 'em drops (aka; tomato stakes). I s'pose, tho, that if I needed 1000 tomato stakes, business economics may come into play and sway either my decision or my paycheck. I was lookin' at those tubes...they're so damn skinny. That, and they ain't cheap either. I'm thinkin' we just reverted back to one of our original thread focuses: which trees need protection from deer browse. The rest of 'em, well, in my little world they will likely get chicken wire and a couple 'o tomato stakes.

NOTE FROM THE MODERATOR:

This post is another example of "The Completion Backwards Principle." If you can manage the time, please read both meanings in one session.

"talk to ya later"

Here on the Oklahoma plains there are three major hurdles for seedling trees: Critters, Wind, and Heat. The tubes are supposed to protect from all three the first summer growing season. Mesh tubes certainly look like they might be worth the effort after that.