Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Fish catch results, Looks like a problem

Ya might try catchin a 2-4" BG or crappy, trimming half the tail, one side fin and scrape a line or two of scales off like it has already been chewed on. I used to catch alot of LMB that way.

I also spray YUM Crawfish flavor on the shiners and fatheads I fish with.

Just make sure you are up-wind when appying the spray!

How does everyone feel about the 48 lbs per acre that I've taken out? Im thinking when I reach 235 fish i will have reached the 50 lbs per acre. Then If I continue to reach 300 fish taken out this year that I will have made room for adding my Florida bass and still be above 50 lbs per acre removed even when the Floridas are added back in this winter.

Im more or less wondering when I should stop keeping fish this year?

Has anyone taken out or seen someone harvest this many fish per acre?

I've never culled that hard, but if the situation calls for it, what else can you do?

I would let the results dictate when you should stop culling.

If you can start tracking Relative Weight on the LMB, that should indicate when things start improving, and you can decide whether or not to keep culling.

At that time, you may want to do a slot-limit type of cull.

I am tracking Wr but doesn't it take a year to see if I made any real difference do to normal fluctuations in weight through this growing season?

I have never done this before but just figured if I can have a net of 50lbs per acre taken out in 2009 and thats including the addition of say 50 Floridas this winter then that might be a decent guess....

I don't know the answer to your question regarding Wr fluctuations throughout the year, but my guess is that the yearly Wr would have an envelope of movement to account for pre-spawn, spawn, and winter-bulking-up. So to that degree, yes, it may take a year to be able to compare deltas above and beyond an envelope of weight variation.

However, I think you would start to see general improvements in the LMBs in a few months providing you have enough forage base.

yes, it will take a while before the results show up.

I think this project is really great and have been tracking it. To your question of how much is too much, I've got a question about the remaining bass. I'm guessing you've got a really good feeling for what's going on in the pond by now.

If you could tell, what would be the average fish remaining (when you stop). Size and average age?

From everything you've said I'd lean towards removing more bass rather than less since the new stocked bass + next years spawn are going to be the target fish to grow big and healthy. You're doing great things with the forage, and I'd want that going into good potential fish not stunted fish.

I'd be worried that you'd be left with a bunch of 4-5+ year old 12-14" fish. They'll start growing when the get more forage, but ultimately they're not going to be great fish as they age. I'd rather get the biomass of older stunted fish out of the pond and move forward with the new stockers plus the next spawn which could get to the same size with proper forage in 12 months.

If you're going to stock adult Florida's and build up your forage I don't think you can over cull very easily, and if you did the consequences aren't exactly bad (stronger forage base, reduced pressure, and faster growing bass). In 12 months you'd be sitting in a good spot.

also, have you started adjusting the forage yet, or is that coming?

AaronM, I'd say the remaining fish are still in the same size range that im catching. Out of 226 we have only released 6 fish. One 20" 5 lbs, and five fish in the 2.5 lb range. I don't really have any ideas on age of the fish though...

But, yes, the remaining fish are gonna be 10-14", I'd probably say that very confidently. Average weight across the board of the 226 is .855 lbs which is pretty much what im seeing. Of course the 10" are less and the 14" are about 1.3 lbs etc.

I guess i'll shoot for 300 fish out and see how they bite after that. I have knocked a big dent in the population but they are still farily catchable so I guess i'll proceed.

On the Forage, I talked to Todd Overton and in my area he is saying to wait for the spawning water temps to stabilize. The temp is pretty close to the same for Tilapia and CNBG and in my area it usually hits around May 1. Makes good sence to me to put them in at that time. So May 1 = 1000 CNBG and 40 lbs Tilapia. Also I'll have 2 feeders running at that time.

I would have liked to Fertilize but am going to wait till next year when I have my vegetation more controlled. Probably a good idea.


One thing I'm wondering is, I have caught 20 crappie while bass fishing with beetlespins. If there are a bunch of them in there which I bet there are, maybe they are whats supporting this huge population of 10-14" bass.

I talked to Greg Grimes and he had said he has never seen a harvest per acre thats been this large and still growing.

I wouldn't worry about taking out too many bass, keep taking them out. I really think it will pay off greatly for you...

In the spring, the crappie always school up, so you can really put a dent in their numbers during this time period.

Maybe the beetle-spin gave you a consistent depth to fish at.

I talked to Todd Overton today who is down in my part of the country and he said he tries to get people to take out 30 lbs per acre generally to correct a problem like mine but said not many of them can even do that or just don't make the effort.

I just know that I could probably reach 60lbs which is double Todd's standard number. Seems interesting to me that I could have that many on a pond that is not fertilized or hasn't been messed with for 20 years.

I have sent Chad a few Pms b/c dang blkbry would not let me respond (anyone knwo how to activate javascript?). I trust Todd and agree most do not do what they are told by biologist. Getting an age is worth its weight in gold. It clicks with clients that unless they take the time to remove what is rec. they may just take enough to equal natural recurtment. Once they see a 14 inch bass is 6 years old they put the hammer down. We can age a few of the bass for fair price if you get us otolith or frozen head. It take Matt about 20 mins per fish to break, grind put on slide. THis method is best there is for accuracy. I actual suggest sacrficing a larger fish so you can see ages of the bass you plan to leave in the pond.

Adding this here as well.

One approach is to monitor CPUE. Has the CPUE (catch per unit effort = time needed to catch the same # of fish) gone down? If so how much ? The numbers of fish ( 10 lbs to 50 lbs) per acre depends on the ponds fertility/productivity. If it starts getting more difficult to catch lots of 10-12 inch LMB then cut back on removing them like you have.

Another approach is to watch for improvement in Wr (relative weight). Have you been keeping that type of info?

A third method is to do a seine survey as per Swingle to see if you have lots of 3 in BG, along with yoy BG and LMB. If those #s are right it means you are approaching balance.

All 3 plus visual and creel info should be enough to give a solid answer. Based on your comments I think you may be closer than you think to balance.

In a very clear pond you may only have 25-30 lbs of LMB per acre. If so you can't take out more than that. In a very fertile pond you could have 125 Lbs of LMB per acre. So it depends. No clear cut rule of LMB lbs per acre can be given without lots of good data.