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#155530 - 03/28/09 08:46 AM fish downstream from pond??
scott69 Offline
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Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 1032
Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...
ok, i will try and make this long story short. last year when i stocked my pond there was a heavy rain 2 days later. the pond never went over e-spillway but was lots going out the pipe. i set 2 minnow baskets down stream and caughts lots of what i thought were little bg. i hurried up and put them back in my pond. some were caught at the 2'x3' hole of water where the water comes out of my pipe.. playing around a few months ago, i set the baskets again in the stream below the pond and caught several gsf. i thought at the time they were bg and i put them in my pond. with the help of some of you guys i have discovered they are gsf, not bg. right now we are getting a huge rain and lots of water is going out of the pipe. my little minnow baskets are filling up with fish. the larger ones look like gsf, but i cant exactly tell about the little 1" ones. where are all the gsf coming from? is my pond full of them? is it their nature to follow the fast current? i am catching them right at my pipe. can you all help me identify the 1" fish??
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#155531 - 03/28/09 08:50 AM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
ewest Offline
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Scott69 GSF are notorious for moving upstream to populate new areas. What have you put in your pond (BG , LMB etc) and when and what size?
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#155561 - 03/28/09 11:39 AM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: ewest]
CJBS2003 Offline
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GSF will ascend streams so small you could easily jump across them if not just step across them.

I think too much of a big deal is made when GSF are found in a pond. In a pond already established with BG and LMB, GSF quickly become outnumbered and within a few years are almost absent. Manage your BG and LMB correctly and the GSF will have little to any affect on your pond.

I have manged ponds that initially only had 1000's of GSF in them. Within 5 years are stocking LMB and BG, the GSF were rarely even seen anymore.
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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#155568 - 03/28/09 12:00 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: CJBS2003]
jeffhasapond Offline
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WE ARE THE GSA. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.

SUBSTITUTE GSA FOR BORG IN THIS VIDEO CLIP AND YOU WILL HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF OUR INTENTION.


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JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#155584 - 03/28/09 02:18 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: jeffhasapond]
scott69 Offline
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Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 1032
Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...
the pond is about 9 months old. stocked with about 1000 bg and 80 bass.

do you thinbk the fish are leaving my pond thru the 12" standpipe or are they like trout and racing up stream when the heavy rains come. either which way, my basket catch lots of gsf after heavy rains even without bait. i am gonna try and take a pic later today of the little ones so maybe yall can help me identify them positively!!

thanks for the replies
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#155600 - 03/28/09 04:59 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
ewest Offline
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Put the trap in the pond and see what you get.
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#155622 - 03/28/09 06:25 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: ewest]
scott69 Offline
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Registered: 07/12/08
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Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...
i have tried that before and never caught a thing. i have heard that you can use the clear plastic type in still water, but not the wire type.
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#155623 - 03/28/09 06:26 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: ewest]
CJBS2003 Offline
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I am betting they are as you said "like trout and racing up stream when the heavy rains come." GSF are able to survive in the smallest of streams and handle pretty fast currents. Post the pic, we'll let you know what you got!
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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#155629 - 03/28/09 06:33 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
adirondack pond Offline
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scott69, try using beef liver in your traps, works for me. all my pond traps are wire or plastic mesh.


Edited by adirondack pond (03/28/09 06:34 PM)
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#155636 - 03/28/09 07:52 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: jeffhasapond]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
WE ARE THE GSA. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.

SUBSTITUTE GSA FOR BORG IN THIS VIDEO CLIP AND YOU WILL HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF OUR INTENTION.



I am SO glad there is another Star Trek nerd out there...you're right JHAP - resistance IS futile!
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#155637 - 03/28/09 07:58 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: teehjaeh57]
Bruce Condello Offline
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 Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
I am SO glad there is another Star Trek nerd out there...you're right JHAP - resistance IS futile!


I am Locutus.
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#155641 - 03/28/09 08:05 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: Bruce Condello]
scott69 Offline
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Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 1032
Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...

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#155642 - 03/28/09 08:06 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
scott69 Offline
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Registered: 07/12/08
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Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...


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#155644 - 03/28/09 08:07 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
scott69 Offline
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Registered: 07/12/08
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Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...
i hope you all can see the pics. i am new to posting pics. the larger is surely a gsf. the smaller has vertical bars. is that just a young gsf or, are they bg?
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#155651 - 03/28/09 08:44 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Congratulations Scott! You have yourself a bunch of little GSF... And it looks like a couple of those larger ones are immature longear sunfish?
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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#155653 - 03/28/09 08:50 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: CJBS2003]
CJBS2003 Offline
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From top to bottom:

First pic, definitely immature GSF

Second pic, larger top fish immature longear but possible dollar sunfish second smaller fish definitely immature GSF

Third pic, larger top fish again an immature longer but possible dollar sunfish and the bottom two are immature GSF.

Immature longear sunfish and dollar sunfish can be very difficult to tell apart. If this stream you are collecting from is a small headwater, then I would suggest the fish is most likely an immature longear sunfish.

Check out the eye coloration and size to body ration on the the ones I said were longears(eye is reddish and larger) and then compared them to the GSF. Also look at the caudal fin shape. The longear has a more pronounced fork to the tail while the GSF tail is more rounded. You also notice in a couple of the GSF they are starting to get the tell tale orangish tinge to the edge of their tail. The immature longears have not developed the opercle flap "ear" yet...


Edited by CJBS2003 (03/28/09 08:59 PM)
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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#155655 - 03/28/09 09:07 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: CJBS2003]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
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you are blessed scott.

cj, i become more and more impressed w/ yer vast knowledge bank.
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#155666 - 03/28/09 10:05 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
scott69 Offline
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Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 1032
Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...
i have read where gsf are undesireable in a pond. what about the longears and dollar sunfish?
is it common for them to go down the pipe during heavy rains?
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#155668 - 03/28/09 10:31 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
CJBS2003 Offline
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When you say down the pipe, are you referring to the fish leaving your pond out the outflow pipe into the stream, or up the stream through the outflow pipe into your pond?

GSF are IMO not a big deal. They do not compete well in a LMB/BG pond. They will be present but in low numbers so I wouldn't sweat them.

Longears reach a maximum size of about 10" or so. When they mature they are actually one of the prettiest sunfish species. They are not adapted to pond life so they will in all likelihood not reproduce in your pond. So they shouldn't be a management issue.

Dollar sunfish in many ways are miniature longears reaching a maximum size of about 5". So they provide little angling value. They are adapted to pond life, but I suspect again much like the GSF will be out competed by the BG/LMB and will not be an issue. If anything because of their limited maximum size, they probably will be eaten to extinction in your pond. I am guessing the fish in the picture are longears though...
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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#155670 - 03/28/09 10:39 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: CJBS2003]
scott69 Offline
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Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 1032
Loc: Chambers county(Valley), alaba...
i am just totaly confused where they are coming from. each time we get a heavy rain they are easy to catch in my minnow traps. when i say down the pipe, i am referring to them going down my standpipe and washing out of the pond. i catch them right where the water is coming out of the pipe.
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#155674 - 03/28/09 10:49 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
ewest Offline
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I would assume they are coming up the creek (drainage) below the pond not out of the pond. Is that possible ?

GSF mostly. Not sure if one of those small ones is a yoy WM.
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#155690 - 03/28/09 11:29 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
Rainman Offline
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My guess would be the fish are trying to swim UPSTREAM and cannot handle the force of the outflow and get washed back into your basket.
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#155696 - 03/28/09 11:37 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: scott69]
Rainman Offline
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My guess would be the fish are trying to swim UPSTREAM and cannot handle the force of the outflow and get washed back into your basket.

FWIW, GSF devestae ponds in Missouri and quickly overpopulate then stunt the entire pond population. According to the Mo. Dept. of Conservation, GSF are far too difficult of a prey for LMB to catch and therefore control.

As much as I hate/fear the GSF, they are extremely beautiful, prolific, and voracious.


They are still best used as fertilizer though!
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#155701 - 03/28/09 11:46 PM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: Rainman]
CJBS2003 Offline
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My guess is that they are definitely not coming out of your pond but rather swimming upstream but as ewest said, they just can't quite juice it up enough to get through the pipe and up into the pond itself...

I doubt you have a GSF/longear contamination from them coming upstream but you did say you caught some in your trap and then released them into your pond. So, it looks as though you released some GSF and longears into your pond.

I can tell you the fish I think are longears are definitely not warmouth. There are 4 possible species, longear sunfish, dollar sunfish, redbreast sunfish or orangespotted sunfish but my money is on the immature longear sunfish.

All the named species are native to your area and inhabit small streams except the redbreast which could be introduced into your area. Warmouth are a dark brown yellow color with some reds and yellows and have a MUCH larger mouth than the fish in your pictures.
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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#155717 - 03/29/09 07:04 AM Re: fish downstream from pond?? [Re: CJBS2003]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Rainman, I cannot imagine GSF having the opportunity to contaminate a pond. Maybe in Missouri but certainly not in Texas. I'm fairly neutral on them as forage but see no problem.

Due to lower spawning, they seem to disappear over time. LMB ought to be able to control anything that will fit in their mouth.
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